Episode 12: The Power of User Research with Megan Boddum
Ever use a product and think, Wow! This product is really easy to use! Well, that’s because there was great user research involved in the making of that product. Megan Boddum, a kids user research specialist, is sharing how you can combine your love of working with kids and research skills as a teacher, to work in user research that’s beyond the classroom.
On the podcast, we talk about using your skills and passion to make a career. Megan is a great example of that and explains her journey in having a career in user research and content strategy. While those are both very broad terms, she gives her definition of each and why both are filled and needed by educators with certain skill sets.
Even if you’re leaving the classroom, there’s still a way for you to work with kids in the capacity of user research. Throughout our conversation, Megan highlights the power of user research and ways to get into that career with the help and advice of others. Take a listen and start exploring this new career path beyond the classroom!
Topics Discussed:
Megan’s journey to her current consulting business
Definitions of user research and content strategy
The positive aspects of having negative user research critiques
Megan explains the two different kinds of research in user research
Suggestions for incorporating kids user research
Resources mentioned:
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Meet Megan Boddum
Megan Boddum currently works as an independent consultant focusing on helping companies and individuals with various children’s technology, media, education and research initiatives. Influenced by her own practice and experiences, she has designed and developed a set of creative methodologies to meet the unique needs of the people, products and industries she serves.
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Read the transcript for this episode:
Lily
Megan Boddumm is a kid's user research specialist. She currently works as an independent consultant focusing on helping companies and individuals with various children's technology, media education and research initiatives. Influenced by her own practice, and experiences, she has designed and developed a set of creative methodologies to meet the unique needs of the people products and industries she serves.
Lily
Welcome, Megan, so glad to have you here.
Megan
Thanks for having me. It's so nice to be here.
Lily
Awesome. Well, let's start with a very broad question about user research. Can you just explain to us in your own terms, what is user research?
Megan
Yeah, that's a great question. I think it's such a broad term. And I think every researcher or everybody working in this space has a different approach of defining it. All the definitions I give, and how I approach things is like really real world like, this is actually how you're going to see it in the space.
Megan
But like, user research is, is really simply like working with your target users to make the best product you can make, right? So testing with the people who are actually going to use your product, getting input from them. And not only doing that, but taking the feedback and implementing it into the product itself. To design it to be the best it can be.
Megan
I always like give people the example of like, in your everyday life, like if you're using something and it's really intuitive, I guarantee there was great user research on it. And so it's sort of fun to just sort of take that challenge throughout your day and be like, oh, like, this is super useful. And like, they really thought of this, this and this.
Megan
And then other things that really don't work that well and are frustrating, I can guarantee either there was user research, and no one listened to you, or nobody did user research. So that's sort of my high level explanation of it. And I think it's the same with kids and adults. They're your target users. I think your approaches are different. But yeah, that's what I would say.
Lily
Yes, so important. I love that challenge, too. I'm like looking around the things in my room that what have you as a research behind them. For folks who are in our business accelerator, we often talk about getting out of our own heads and thinking about what the people on the other side of our businesses will experience.
Lily
So that seems aligned to user research too like, putting your product or service or whatever it is in front of actual people to see how it works. So will let you think about things in a totally different way. And yeah, as we see, it's super, super needed.
Megan
And also like being open to hearing all the feedback, no matter what it is. I think a lot of people have a hard time when either they've put a lot of effort or their creative development behind something, and then they get negative feedback. And so I think it's being willing to hear that and you know, you want to hear negative stuff to make it better. So that's a big thing that people have to get comfortable with.
Lily
Yes, it's so hard and so important. And I think at the beginning, too, right? Like you don't want to build this amazing thing or thing that you think is amazing, and then after like a year of thinking about it, and tinkering and doing all this stuff, then put it in front of people and get feedback that oh, this thing really should have changed at the beginning. So really, from the beginning, I think having that research.
Megan
Yeah. And I always tell people, like good user research usually shouldn't bring back bad results, not in the way like like negative things because we can fix them, right? That's why we do it. We don't want to go in there and everything be perfect, because then what's the point of doing this iterative research.
Megan
So if we do it on time, and we do it early enough, you're not going to see amazing things. But the goal is to continually iterate and change and fix and at the end have something that is going to work really well and that you're not going to have to keep redesigning.
Lily
Yes, totally. I love that reframing of like, it's all good feedback at all is like for the purpose of making things better. So I know in your professional career, you've done many different things. And I'd love for you to kind of take us back in time and bring us along your professional journey.
Megan
Sure. So I've been doing sort of a toggle between kids user research and content strategy. I've been doing it for about 15 years now, which is crazy to say. And it all started, I mean, I've always grown up working with kids. I was a camp counselor. I was a babysitter. I just love kids and it was sort of intuitive in me on how like how to work with them.
Megan
So I mean, in those times was when everybody seemed to know what they wanted to do or do, I had no idea what I wanted to do. And I still don't know exactly what I want to do in life. And I think that's a good thing. But I was sort of on my way to becoming a teacher.
Megan
So I was planning to go get my credential. And at that time, I got an opportunity to intern at LeapFrog toys, which was a really big, big company at the time, they had just launched the Leapster.
Megan
And I worked in the children's user research labs just like helping run the lab, greeting the kids, doing clerical work. But it was the first place I really realized, like, Oh, this is like a thing.
Megan
Like, I can work with kids in a different way in and work alongside all these creatives and wonderful people that are making stuff for kids, but still use my skill set of how to like, work with kids and sort of translate their thoughts and their reflections to things in a meaningful way.
Megan
So that was like a huge turning point of realizing like what I wanted to do. Another thing I loved about it is it was always ever changing. I'm someone that will need to change a lot. And that was appealing to me. And so I stayed there for way longer than I thought. I took a full time job there running the labs after I interned and didn't go get my credential and instead pursued this field.
Megan
And then from there, I sort of I, I've sort of tried it all. And I think it's important to try different things. And some things were really great. And some things I hated. And that was not a fail, it just is good to know what you don't want.
Megan
So from LeapFrog I went to I was a program manager at Sylvan Learning Center for many years in Oakland, so manage curriculum teachers. And it was great experience. But I think the whole time I was there, I really wanted to get back into kids user research technology. So I went back and got my master's in early childhood education, with a concentration on media and technology.
Megan
And then from there, I just started working more in the tech space full time. So I went and worked at a startup in a city in San Francisco called Fingerprint Digital. And so they curated these app experiences for different companies. As a director of education there, that's where I did a lot of content strategy.
Megan
And then from there, I really wanted to get back into the lab with kids. So I took a job at YouTube Kids as a researcher working there. And that was the first time I was in like a really huge company like Google. And it was a whole different way of working.
Megan
So I was used to the startup world where we work really fast. And we do many things. And you know, going into YouTube Kids, it was like, you do this one thing. This is your role. So that just took a lot of getting used to I don't think it was a bad thing. I think I learned a lot from it.
Megan
But I really missed, you know, I really wanted to work on more emerging tech. And I got a chance to be a user researcher for a robotics company called Monkey. And one of their products was Cosmo. He's like a little robot. And so it was kid facing.
Megan
So I was the senior user researcher on that product. So and then from there, that company, unfortunately went under, but also a great experience, I met the best people, it was super challenging.
Megan
From there, I started consulting at a bunch of startups, and sort of really got into that and wanted to just to consult, and then got a couple clients and was sort of doing that. And then the whole world stopped and COVID hit and like everybody else, I thought I'll just wait it out.
Megan
Like I lost most of my clients because they get rid of expensive consultants first. I thought I'll just wait it out and see how it goes. Like everybody remember those days where it was like, it'll be a couple of weeks? Yeah.
Megan
So a couple weeks, you're in a new couple of months. And I finally was like I go back and get a full time role. So I took a contract position at Google working on some kids initiatives. And was there for a little over a year, and then really realized I wanted to get back into my consulting.
Megan
And so that's what I'm doing full time. I have my own consulting business. And I work with various clients on user research or content strategy initiatives. That was a very long winded roadmap.
Lily
Awesome. I mean, it's truly awesome to hear about the different places that you've been and what you learned along the way. I'm wondering a couple of things for folks who don't know what content strategy is. Can you explain a little bit about that?
Megan
Yeah, also another huge, huge big term, and I'll probably describe it differently than other people would. But I sort of look at content strategy is a way of organizing content for either an organization or an initiative in a systematic way.
Megan
So for example, if we are looking at a ton of children's apps, and we want to organize them, how are we going to do that in a systematic way? Are we going to look at it by age range learning objective, theme, excetera developer, and oftentimes, when you're creating these approaches and strategies, you're working with, like 1000s, and 1000s, and 1000s of pieces of content.
Megan
So how do you how do you do that at scale? And thinking like, globally, like these themes and buckets we create have to be applicable to not just the US but all over the world. So yeah, definitely organization and how you group things.
Megan
And then also content strategy, from my experience is, how do you pick good content for kids? Like, if you get tasked with, okay, man, we need to pick 20 apps for this, you know, I work for this Samsung kids product. And the challenge was, we need to pick x amount of content with X amount of budget, and we have to use these developers.
Megan
Okay, so how, how do we want to pick them? And what's going to be most beneficial for the end user and the child and the parent? So in my experience, it's like, reviewing content is one bucket, and then how you organize content. Yeah, but other people's content strategy could be, it could be looped into how do you create content. So my experience is really in those two spaces.
Lily
Yeah, totally. We worked on content strategy together at Google. And I feel like I came in being like, I don't really know what content strategy is. And I agree, though, I mean, I think it is like organizing and like a whole bunch of content at once, how to make sense of it in a way that was going to be understandable to other people, and present what you want to present or put forward the things you want to put forward.
Lily
And I guess I did like when I was at Education.com, I worked on content strategy more on like the content marketing side and the curriculum side of things of like, we're having this initiative, and we need to create English Language Arts curriculum for English learners, or something, you know, like, and a whole bunch of it. So like, how do we organize it? And I guess that's also content strategy on the kind of creation side of it.
Megan
Yeah, yeah. It's just like this really big term that people throw around. And like, even people get hired to do the role. You're sort of like, what exactly are we doing? We define this. So I think sometimes when people hear these big terms, they get intimidated, but like, just be assured, like even people working in them are still defining them.
Lily
Yes, I think that's so important. And what I hear from teachers all the time is like, my skills aren't applicable in these other areas, and you kind of talk yourself out of going forward with them. Yeah, I think that's great to remember that, like, even the people who are doing the jobs are still coming to an understanding of like, what this is, and learning through the process of doing it.
Lily
So let's go back to you going out on your own and starting your own consultancy, which is amazing. Congratulations. And tell us about how that's been like, what have you learned? What have you struggled with?
Megan
Yeah, it's been a crazy, fun, scary, exciting process. I think, I mean, a big reason I did it was I'm someone that likes to work on different things and have change. And oftentimes, when you are, you know, full time on a product or in an organization, you work on the same thing, which also has its benefits, because you can sort of see how that grows.
Megan
But for me in my career, it was just, I don't really know what I want to do next. And so instead of just, you know, going to another big organization, and I just sort of wanted to, like, try different things. And I thought, how could I do that in a way that's, you know, I can make some money and also have my own, you know, I can learn a ton.
Megan
And so consulting just sort of allows me to work with different companies and different people and different things. So that's a big reason why I did it. Things I'm learning that it's a very unpredictable space. So you have to be comfortable with the unknown. And I think, you know, I've always been sort of good with that.
Megan
But you know, the last three years are like bootcamp for everybody with the unknown. And so you don't always know when the next projects coming, and then all of a sudden, you get a ton and it's all and when it rains, it pours. So you're super, super busy, and then you're like, not busy.
Megan
So learning that it's like, all the art of like, connections with people, putting yourself out there is a big thing, like letting people know you're doing this like letting people know your background. And I think, for me, I'm not someone that likes to talk about myself that much.
Megan
So like, it's been a good exercise and like putting myself out there and asking people like, Hey, do you have opportunities for this? And like, most of the time, it's no, but like, you'll get a random Yes. And you're like, wait, really?
Megan
And then, you know, when you have those good connections in those good projects, it's like, really nurturing those relationships, because they are the people, it's all word of mouth, and it's all reputation. So like, they are the people that are going to recommend you for other things or use you again.
Megan
And then I think another thing I've learned is just, and this is very blunt, but the efficiency is just tenfold, when you sort of have control over your own schedule. I think, you know, oftentimes, in the tech world, it's really fun. It's really exciting, and you get to meet a lot of cool people.
Megan
But, you know, there's, oftentimes you're spinning on one thing for a really long time. And there's a lot of back and forth. And there's a lot of approvals that are needed. And there's a lot of meetings that aren't necessary.
Megan
And I think running my own schedule my own projects, I've really gotten to be more efficient, which is big for me, I am someone that likes to just make a decision and move forward. So that's another thing I've learned, but I'm still learning and I don't know, you know, what's next, but that sort of fun for me.
Lily
That's awesome. I totally relate to all those different points of it. You know, we're starting my own business and trying these new things. And especially that visibility piece of like, it takes practice and comfortable. And the more you do it, the more comfortable it feels.
Lily
So I think it's like, yeah, just getting used to like hearing no's and being okay with it. You know, the first no, you hear it's like, oh, my gosh, nobody's gonna want to hire me. All the feelings. But if you're asking like 10 people a week, yeah and eight of them saying no, like, you get used to it.
Lily
And it's all a process of like finding your people. And even the people who say no might say yes, in six months, like it's just like making those connections.
Megan
Oh, yeah. Because things come up and timing is everything in all, I think all areas of life. But I think it's also like reminding yourself, like, what knowledge you have and what you bring to the table what other people might not, and how to leverage that thing.
Megan
That's another thing I've really learned is, I've worked in so many different spaces and know a lot of different research methodology. And there's some that I know, like, I do a lot of work with CO design with kids. And that's like, where you do research alongside. So the kids are helping you design what you're actually making. So it's not always used, but a lot of companies are starting to adopt it.
Megan
And what I've realized is that not a lot of people know how to like, do it. And so leveraging that, you know, those skills have been something I've learned, like, oh, great, like, I know how to do this really well, I've had to do it and many roles, and it's bringing something into the table that they don't know how to do and that's why they want to bring you on right. So totally.
Megan
And then reminding yourself with like, the no's is like, sometimes you like question like, do I even know anything? Like, am I an imposter? Reminding myself of all that I've done, and all that I know is, you know, like, I have to constantly do that. But yet marketing myself is not fun. So I gotta get better at it. I always think like, I want to post something. And I'm like this. So like, nobody wants to see this.
Lily
But they do. Like I'm like I want to see it right. Like people do want to see it. But I think we all do that of kind of talking ourselves out or doing things or like, it does feel uncomfortable. And I don't think it's like, you can wait for a time for it to feel comfortable. You just figure it out. Definitely.
Lily
So I know part of the fun is like not knowing what's next. But you have a vision of where you see your career or your consultancy going next?
Megan
Yeah, I think definitely continuing to do the actual research itself, the design and development. I think some of what I'm starting to do is more workshops, and then I teach as well. So teaching other people how to do this is really fun for me.
Megan
But I always think like I never want to get out of practice and not be actually doing the work. So hopefully always being in labs with kids being in classrooms with teachers and kids and talking to parents is something I really like.
Megan
But yeah, I see like a lot more like workshop stuff. I think what I'm realizing is there's a lot of teams and companies small and big, where they still need to learn a lot about user research, even if they're doing it day to day and like methodology and especially working on new emerging tech that I've worked on.
Megan
Right so like how do you study robotics with kids? How do you study animation? How do you study AR and VR and like all these new things that are coming?
Megan
So hopefully doing more workshops, with companies with my expertise, and then definitely continuing to teach, I don't want to do that full time. But I like to have like a class here and there. And honestly, like, for me, the priority is like working on fun stuff with like, really great people. If I get an opportunity to work on something awesome, and the people are just awful, I just I don't want to do that anymore.
Megan
But you know what, like, who knows? It could change in six months. And that's part of the fun for me with this. So yeah, that's sort of where I see it going.
Lily
That's great. No, I totally relate to that too like having the teaching part and the practice part. That's kind of how I feel about curriculum. Like I love teaching about curriculum, but I always want to have some part of me that's creating curriculum or doing curriculum projects, too, because both sides, both light me up. Like they make me feel good. And I enjoy them. But also they make each other better.
Lily
Like I think the best teachers actually do have that like practice component too. Well, how about for folks who want to incorporate some kind of kids user research into their work? Do you have any suggestions for them?
Megan
Yeah, I think, working with people who know kids research, I think a lot of times, user research is just there's like it's crammed into one big thing. And I think kids and adults are just so drastically different. And then the approaches to kids research is very different.
Megan
So I think definitely working with people who have that expertise is important. And I think I think there's oftentimes like not oftentimes many times where research is like a checkbox item. So like, we have to do it for the project, we'll do it. But nothing really comes of it. So it's hard when you work on those kinds of things. Because it's like, why are you doing this if you're not gonna use any other feedback?
Megan
So I think implementing the research, but giving yourself enough time to actually iterate and make the changes from the findings is so important. So like, for me, it's like always finding the person that's like, in control of the schedule for the project and being like, hey, if we want to do research, we have to do it like six months before and like people are always like, what, like, that's so far out.
Megan
But when you think about how long it takes to schedule people and run the research, and then make the changes from the research, it's like, it's not far off. So yeah, I definitely think like working with someone who knows it really well. And but also like, doing it because you want to do it and are invested in it, not because you have to do it.
Lily
Absolutely. Yeah. That's great advice. And is there anything else you'd like to share with our audience?
Megan
Yeah, I think I get this question. A lot of people come to me and ask me like, how do I like, I love kids. How do I do this? And in my opinion, kids research, like, the priority is knowing kids first. I think if you know how to work with kids, and you know something about child development, and how to read cues, and how to roll with the punches.
Megan
Working with kids like it never there's never been a session with a kid that's gone according to plan. But that's how it goes.
Megan
So I always say like, if you know, kids, and you're really good at them, it's like half like it's more than half the battle. And then it's learning like, how do you adapt your skills, either from the classroom or just working with kids in another environment to research, right?
Megan
And then either working with a mentor or interning somewhere or just trying to learn more about it, then you learn about the methods and how to do it. I mean, I never formally learned this field at all, I was all on the job learning, observation, offering my services to help people to learn, asking for help.
Megan
I do wish there was more like, programs that have courses in this space. But that's something I'm working on with my teaching. But yeah, just asking people for advice and help. And like, you know, a lot of people will say no, or ignore you. But there's a lot of great people in this space that will, you know, talk to you and give you feedback. Yeah, that's what I would say, if you're interested in this space.
Lily
Yeah, that's great. And I love that being that knowledge of kids is so fundamental. And something again, that I think many teachers kind of take for granted.
Megan
So there's sort of like two kinds of research. In my experience. There's this industry research, which is what I do. And there's academic research, right? Which and then like a lot of people are intimidated by the word research because they're, oh my gosh, that's so detailed, and it takes forever and it's industry versus academic is like a totally different world.
Megan
Like, we move at a different pace. We move a lot faster. We're flexible, we go with the flow, we don't have as much time, it's less about how many readings have we done and how many things that we've get into this and more about what are we seeing the team meet this now we need to make changes.
Megan
So I think it's just learning about like those two spaces and what your personality is best suited for. I've seen academics come to industry, and I've seen industry go to academics and like just seeing people's like reactions are pretty wild.
Megan
And yeah, I think oftentimes, a lot of people who know research, but don't know kids are tasked with doing kids one off projects research. And it doesn't go well. And that's not because they're not great researchers is because kids are super different and unpredictable. And they don't know kids.
Megan
So whenever I'm hiring someone for my team, or interviewing, or I'm looking for an intern, I don't want the person who knows all the methodology. I want someone who knows really kids really well and has a great personality and like is open to learning. Because you can learn the methods. Yes, but you can't really learn that instinct with kids.
Lily
Absolutely. Yeah. And it's like that flexibility too. Alright, something's gonna happen and I'm going to think on the spot. Like, you can't teach that so much too when you're thinking about training somebody, where you can teach, like this research methodology or whatever it is there.
Megan
Yeah. And like, in industry, like letting things go is really important. Because many times decisions are made that are not aligned with what you're seeing. And if you can't let it go and move forward, I've seen it it's just really hard for people.
Megan
So yeah, for me, I look for temperament is the first one I look for, and then kids knowledge and then just how is this person gonna roll with the punches when it gets like really difficult and like hard.
Lily
Yes, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for sharing all about your experience with us, Megan. It was such a great time having you on the podcast. Tell folks where they can find you. That would be great.
Megan
Sure. You can look at my website, it's Megan Boddum Consulting, but it's www.meganrboddum.com.
Lily
I'll put the link down below too.
Megan
I'm on LinkedIn as well. Feel free to drop me a line or just sort of check out my website. It has a lot of up to date stuff. Yeah. And that's how you can contact me.
Lily
Awesome. Well, thanks again, Megan.
Megan
Thank you for having me. It was so fun.