Episode 126: Redesigning Education with Jessie Slayback and Vicky Forsman of REALM

Jessie Slayback and Vicky Forsman are the co-founders of REALM. Since launching in 2010, REALM has been pioneering an innovative educational model. They have gone through many transitions and impacted over 3,482 lives. Currently, REALM serves 150 students, ages 5 to 15, with plans to expand.

In this episode, we discuss the successes and challenges of building REALM, including the importance of love and resilience, along with the financial struggles. We also talk about REALM's approach, emphasizing choice-based learning, social-emotional development, and adapting to students' unique needs. They also share their desire to help other educators create similar schools, focusing on scalability and individualized education.

 
 
 
 
 

Read the transcript for this episode:

Welcome to Educator Forever, where we empower teachers to innovate education. Join us each week to hear stories of teachers expanding their impacts beyond the classroom and explore ways to reimagine teaching and learning.

Jessie and Vicky are the co-founders of REALM. Since launching in 2010 REALM has been pioneering an innovative education model. They've gone through many transitions and have impacted over 3482 lives to reach this point. Currently, they serve 150 students ages five to 15 with plans to expand. Their campus is located on the west side of Los Angeles, and attracts families who value Individualized Education. Welcome Vicky and Jesse. So glad to have you here. 


REALM  

Great to be here. Thanks for having us. 


Lily Jones  

So I'd love to hear from both of you about your journeys as educators and what brought you together. 


Vicky Forsman  

Absolutely, oh boy, well, my journey started with my own personal education. I spent a lot of years in public school outside of Chicago, and we all know that education works differently for different people. And in my case, I was just kind of on a conveyor belt going through the system and going from one grade to the next, but not really feeling connected to what I was learning, not feeling a lot of passion, and not feeling like I was being ranked as a successful learner with the way that it was being taught to me. And then later in my life, was went to a small, small private school, and in that moment, I just had a very different experience of educators who had a different level of passion and personal investment in each student, and I just was able to wake up to the fact that, wait a minute, I'm not a lousy student, and I do care about things I wasn't learning in a way that was palatable for me, and so that just kind of started wheels on the track for me, and just exploring these alternative veins of education. And then fast forward, I went to a small Women's College, and then, when I moved to California, got the opportunity to start a small private school, and it was very alternative in its thinking, in the way that it wanted to keep the classes small, keep them multi age, and allow for lots of creativity and ways for kids To explore things that they loved and were passionate about and get out in the world and do real life learning. And that's where I met Jesse. I'll just introduce her quickly. It was I when I watched her teach. I was like, she's the world's best teacher. This is a human that I want to work with, and I'll let you tell how I got there. 


Jessie Slayback  

Yes, yeah, it's funny, because Vicky's in, my story is completely different. You know, I was the opposite growing up. I I knew how to play the school game, and I wanted to get the best grades, and I want to be the best student, and if I didn't get 100 on a test, I took it over. I was valedictorian in my high school, although I didn't go and give a speech because I didn't like my high school because, again, I wasn't really connected. I was just playing the game. I was just getting, you know, and went to University of Chicago and was doing the same thing, working as hard as I could to just be the top student. I wanted to be, you know, the best at that. But I was miserable. And by my junior year of college, I almost took my own life, actually. And it was then that I realized, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down like, what is life really about? What is the importance? What? What? What am I really trying to do? And in college, the one thing that would continue, because I was music major, I thought I was gonna be a concert pianist. But again, I don't know that I even really loved that. It was just who people thought I was. It was what people expected of me. It was how I performed, right? I started to really reflect and think about what brought me joy, and it was being with kids. It was working with kids. And so I started working with Teach for America, and taught in New York for two years. Cried every day on the way to work. It was the hardest thing I'd ever done in my life. You know? I had a classroom of like, 46/4 graders, and it was insane. And I was only, like 22 I mean, and then I got hired at this amazing school called North Star Academy that subsequently has started a lot of really great programs for kids, and that was in Newark, New Jersey, and I had a group of high school kids, and I decided, kind of insanely, that I was going to take them to New Zealand. I needed them to see parts of the world that that weren't Newark New Jersey, because Newark New Jersey was a pretty sad, depressing place. In order for them to see beyond just getting good grades, I was like, We gotta, we gotta see the world. Let's go. Let's do this. So I did. I took a group of high schoolers again. They should never have let me I think it was 23 at the time. Three at the time, on a marae in in a Maori village, and really changed everybody's lives. And so after that, I was taking my I visited my soon to be husband, who's in California, drove past the school that Vicky was kind of a founder at. And started and had to stop. Even though I was on the way to the airport, just had to stop. So I get out of the car and I walked in. I was like, by any chance, are you guys looking for anyone? And they were like, matter of fact, for looking for a kindergarten teacher. Have you ever taught Canary? I was like, No, I have not loved I just dove right in. Started teaching there, did their k1 program for years. We realized we were on something, and we had some big, grand ideas, and then it was when I was pregnant with my first child. I was like, Vic, there's nowhere I want him to go, so I'm sorry. We need to build it, yeah, and we that's where it started. 


Vicky Forsman  

That's what we've been doing, and it's just involving growing, learning experience for us, just as much as it has been for the kids, it's been really a magical, beautiful learning journey, and just finding people that are smarter than like we've never written a check for somebody like a page, you know,


Lily Jones  

I hadn't either before starting Educator Forever.


Jessie Slayback  

and we just surged forward, and here we are. 


Lily Jones  

That's amazing. I truly love this story so much, and I love what you both started by reflecting on yourself as students, yeah, and really thinking about the different learning experiences, like as we know as teachers, like schools can vary so much within public schools, within private schools within all the school you know, like, there's such a different experience that students have, and even students have different experiences within the same school, yeah, right. And so I appreciate hearing both sides, you know, of like, what was working, what wasn't working for you, and how you moved that forward. And I also just resonated with like, I taught kindergarten, first grade also, and I taught at a great school, and then I had my own kids, and I was like, I don't know, like, my daughter's like, a individual, you know, like, she was just like, now, but she was like, shoeless, climbing trees, like, all the time. I'm like, I don't think our local public school, where they're like, sitting down and reading giant textbooks is going to work for you. Yep, nailed it. So it gave me a different perspective. As a teacher, I already knew this, but then seeing it as a parent of like, even my two kids are so different from each other exactly, and I'm thinking about, like, what they need and the options that were or were not available. So I love that you all were just like, we're gonna build it, and that's it.


Jessie Slayback  

 And it's funny, because what we ended up building is a completely individualized choice based program. So really, it can fit anybody. Anybody can come to the REALM and feel that community and belonging and love and also completely build their own path based on what works for them. You know, same thing Lily, I have two boys, and they're like, they couldn't be more different. They're too complete, and they learn different and need different things. And so at the REALM like based on what what we're seeing, we can help parents and guide them what whatever their goals might be. Like some parents come to us and they're like, I don't care if my kid reads now or when they're 15, doesn't matter to me at all, but I want them to be creative and do all this. Okay, we can put a path together that looks like that, whereas we have other parents who are like, it's really important to me. I want them to develop these core skills so then they can blossom. Here. Got a path for that too, no problem. So it's really been a fun and and on top of that, as teachers, we knew how hard it was to teach within a system that told you what to do and where you had one kind of job. I mean, you probably know same idea. Yeah, all of our teachers here choose the classes they teach. They choose what they want to teach. They create new crazy classes all of the time, and we collaborate as partners in that.


Vicky Forsman  

So, yeah, we, I feel like we spend a good deal of time just scouring the city for the most passionate people, what they're passionate about, and I think, if we like, part of our intention is to put as many things on the buffet table as possible for kids, so that they can get access to a lot of the core skills that are important, but then they can also try things on and discover what, what lights them up, or what they're really good At, or what, what challenges them, and kind of join them on that process and keep reflecting back to them where we see, Oh, I see this is really something that you care about, or something that you're great at, and just helping them see themselves on this journey with educators that are super passionate and diverse in different ways. One thing I feel like every T, every student we all know, kind of has their own way of learning, their own learning style, and so does every teacher. Every teacher has their own teaching style. And one beautiful thing here is seeing kids try on all these different types of teachers and discover which ones are really speaking their language, which ones are really in their lane. And then it's also okay to be like this one is totally not, you know, this is way too complicated, because they're either, you know, too free thinking and creative, or too, you know, organized, organized and logical, whatever it is, you know. And then they can start to see themselves as this is doesn't determine whether you are capable of learning or whether you're a good or bad learner. It's just an indicator in what ways you learn the best. 


Lily Jones  

You know, so beautiful. I mean, I think and so needed that this individualization and what shines through me as you both talk is the joy and curiosity that's behind it for students and teachers. And I think sometimes it's like we talk about it from one side, maybe student centered, and then kind of don't really talk about the teachers, but really with teachers where it's like having that curiosity, like being able to build my own classroom, being able to, like, investigate things, or bring in somebody, or take students to New Zealand, like all of that is what makes teaching so rewarding. D


Jessie Slayback  

You know, it's amazing to me, because when we look back at our core staff, we've had people here ever since the beginning, for 15 years. And I can't say it's because we pay them as much as they should. We will get there. It is. It's totally because they are living their best life, you know, in terms of doing what they're passionate about and continually getting to evolve, right? Like that's what always caused me to find another job I've worked so hard for tears and then enough. But they hear it's just constant evolution, constantly getting better at your craft and figuring yourself out and your passions and then bringing that to kids? 


Vicky Forsman  

Yeah, we have a teacher in a neighboring classroom who teaches everything from like, art history to Agatha Christie novels to how to survive a zombie apocalypse. 


Lily Jones  

I want to take it all.


Vicky Forsman  

the life skills you can embed in these areas. It's really beautiful.


Lily Jones  

Yes, absolutely. And I think being able to adapt and change and try new things, like for teachers and for students, is such a great life lesson. And it's something that I hear from teachers all the time, that they feel so stuck. And I definitely felt like that myself, of like, not being able to really evolve in the way that you want to. It seems like Groundhog Day, and you're teaching the same thing over again and over and over and over, and not really having that pathway, or that situation where you can really step into what you want to do at each stage of your development.


Jessie Slayback  

That's, yeah, exactly we read we I met this amazing human. His name is Todd Rose. I don't know if you've ever heard of him. He he's, oh my gosh, he's incredible. And one of the one of the books that he wrote that I recommend everybody read is called the end of average. And it's this idea that for a long time, because our scientific process wasn't we didn't have AI, we didn't have things that could speed it up. We had to kind of generalize things, right? So we would put everything in a bell curve or in a graph, and we would find what average was. What's the average student? What are average six year olds doing? When do babies averagely crawl right? And what he has come to realize is there really is no average. That's a complete fallacy. And so when we really start to look at every unique human being as a unique, jagged human being who's different in different contexts, just like Vicki was talking about, with the learning styles, then we can really find and help people create their greatest self and move forward to that. And when I was presenting at the Vela conference, he got to hear me speak, and then we talked afterward, and really found this synergy between his ideas of this, the end of average, and what we are trying to do here with kids. Because no, no child is average. No six year old should be in the same place necessarily, as another six year old, right? Just as a 30 year old shouldn't be in the same place as another 30 year old. We all, we're all our unique little puzzle, and he just gives excellent scientific evidence for it, too. So it's not just, you know, we believe it because we see it and it feels good. It's like there's hardcore evidence to prove we are we're all a unique Vicky likes to say we're all speckled eggs. We're all our own little puzzle and REALM really allows kids to discover and be honored for that unique puzzle, you know, not feeling like they have to be just better than average at everything.


Lily Jones  

Yes, I love that idea of speckled eggs, too. I mean, even just for a kid to imagine for themselves. So being like, Hey, I'm a speckled egg. I can have a variety of different interests and things that I want to pursue. And it doesn't have to be like, I'm a math person, or, you know, I'm a music person, or whatever it is, right? Like, have the invitation to explore whatever interests us, and even if the zone interest test right, like some of it is exploring the things that we're not immediately interested in, and trying it out and being surprised.


Jessie Slayback  

Absolutely, yeah, it's, it's, it's really become our mission now to help other people start REALMs, because we realize how important this work is that we're doing, and what a different experience our kids and our teachers are having, and we just want other people to have that. I was on a conference with we've been working with Harvard, with the emerging school models, and I was on a conference call yesterday, and they were talking about. So this epidemic of loneliness and anxiety in kids, and how it's just further and further increasing. You know, it's not just a COVID Blip. It's like really getting pretty deep. They were saying that 61% of young adults feels if they have no purpose, and then 41% or 42% of teenagers feel like they have no purpose. And it really struck me because when, when we started the REALM, we didn't really have that language. We just knew we wanted something that fit better. And then it wasn't until in 2018 horrible loss, my my mom and dad both killed themselves, and it wasn't because they they didn't have things they needed, they had food, they had homes, they you know, but they had no purpose. They had lost connection to purpose and meaning, and also didn't feel like they belonged. You know, I moved to the other side of the country and didn't visit like it just was that, that it was a lot, and in my grieving process and trying to understand, like, What, was going on, what happened? I found this guy, Paul Chapelle, who another book everybody should read, writing it down was this foundation called Peace literacy. And the idea behind peace literacy is that we focus so much on these essential survival things, right, like food, shelter, water, right? But what he says is even more importantly than that, are these, these non physical needs. And in those non physical needs is purpose and meaning, belonging, Transcendence, explanation, right? And so it's all of these things we really are seeking for as human beings, and if we don't get that met, it doesn't matter if you have food, it doesn't matter if you have shelter, you're not going to have the will to survive. And that revolutionized the way I saw the REALM, because I was like, oh my god, Vic, this is what it is that we're doing. We're providing these, these non physical needs in in like bucket fulls to people. People walk in the door at the REALM, and they're like, Hey, you're here today. And they get a huge hug, you know? And they feel a sense of belonging, they feel connection, they feel a sense of purpose. They they're guiding their own journey. And again, I just, I want every human in the world to be able to experience that, and then I think we can tackle this, this, this epidemic of loneliness and lack of purpose. 


Lily Jones  

Yes, absolutely. That resonates with me, of just what I've seen, too, as being meaningful and in schools or out of schools or in life. It reminds me of I read this article that Bettina love wrote recently called the tragedy generation. I was like, kids of the ages, like, I don't know, eight to 17 right now, or something like that, have been really just shaped by tragedy after tragedy after tragedy and the impact that it's had. And though I sent it to a friend, and she's like, this is too intense, but I was like, to me, it was like, it was intense, but it also was kind of affirming. Like, this is the work we need to do, right? The work we need to do is not like, Sure, reading scores and math scores and all those things. Like, yes, I'm into learning, but what the real work we need to do is all the things that you were just talking about, right? Giving a sense of purpose, giving a sense of belonging, and really thinking about that, it doesn't really make a difference to focus on these test scores when kids are dealing with tragedy after tragedy after tragedy and heaviness. And how do we really focus on what matters? 


Jessie Slayback  

Absolutely. Well? And now we've got like, intensely intelligent AI that can help meet kids. Needs to get essential skills like that. It's 30 minutes a week essential skills, core skills met, right? But they've gotta have that like desire and curiosity and choice to learn.


Vicky Forsman  

Somebody who's like improving into them and reflecting to them. What we're seeing is their passions and strengths and care. And there's just so many dimensions of a person I just, I go back to thinking about the conveyor belt, you know, of just kind of moving through accepting the way that you're being labeled or categorized, and then getting out and being like, who am I? Where am I going? What are my skills? What's my purpose, what's my gifts, you know, and just like trying to enter the world, and I just think it's time that we relook at that and reshape the way that we're approaching their experience.


Jessie Slayback  

Another book silly enough that super inspires the work that we do. Here is… you probably heard of this one, but maybe not unreasonable hospitality, right? Will giardia, I could be saying that wrong. Sorry. But he writes about, you know why it's so important in the restaurant business and in any business, to super attend to the hospitality, and what that means is seeing and understanding every single person who walks in, because people are looking for belong. And they're looking for a place where they feel seen and heard, for that individuality, you know, and for who they are and what they really need. And he just, he says it so beautifully in his book, and talks about how it kind of spans through any business, any life adventure. And of course, you can see some episodes in the bear where they're demonstrating like how, how, what providing someone an experience where they feel truly seen and heard means more than anything. I just our public schools are just not set up to be able to do that. It's not, there are so many well intentioned teachers, but the schools are not set up for that. It's, it's the opposite, unfortunately.


Lily Jones  

Yes, and I think that having teachers who want that teach in schools that are not set up for that causes such friction and frustration and burnout. You know, I felt like I just couldn't teach the way that I knew my students needed and that I wanted to teach nailed it. And it was incredibly frustrating because it's like, well, what am I supposed to do within this system here. And I appreciate what you said too about just seeing people for who they are, like that is what, as a student, as a parent, like what I want the most, right? When I think about my kids at school, and I think about their favorite teachers, it's like the ones that really see them, yeah, parts of them, yeah. So I think just focusing on that is so key too.


Jessie Slayback  

Absolutely, and teaching other kids how to do that as well. You know, everybody at the REALM, we focus so much on their being able. I don't want to use the word tolerant necessarily, but really honoring who everybody is and recognizing, oh, they might operate differently than me. They might act differently than me in this moment and and my job is really to try to understand who they are and just how I get my needs met too, but not trying to change or shame or bucket anybody into,


Vicky Forsman  

you know, one category. I think that's another piece of our puzzle is intentional diversity in so many different ways. You know, in this world, especially in Los Angeles, you know, there's people that are all different in so many different ways, different beliefs, your politics, whether it's your you know, finances, whether it's where you come from and how you learn and the rate in which you learn. And I think it's such an important opportunity for kids to practice being in the world with with other types of people, and I feel like in small classes, when you can assume the role as a teacher, to be able to make those small moments teachable moments, and working on those social skills, how to manage breakdowns, how to teach kids, how to coexist, how to be more mindful how to think about the greater good. You know, there's just some more, very crucial life lessons that can be possible. Can be made possible, yeah?


Jessie Slayback  

And you don't, you don't apply to come to the REALM, anybody and everybody can come to the REALM, anybody and everybody can belong here. It's whether or not you can handle all this. 


Vicky Forsman  

You know the ability to serve. You know, we're always honest, too, if we're just like our sources within to get you, as far as you you deserve to go, yep, you know. But as far as what show, a lot of people come here in all for all different reasons. You know, we have a lot of people who are traditionally in alternative mindsets and education, and then we have a lot of kids who are in trauma, and their parents are like, What on earth is this? What is, you know, what is homeschooling and like, we just have to kind of reintroduce a different path for them. 


Jessie Slayback  

A lot of kids who just are bored. They just think learning is boring because they've never been able to just fly and have the ceiling taken off for them.


Lily Jones  

Yeah, so cool. Well, it's so cool hearing about all the things you're doing at the REALM. And can you, I know it started off years ago as an idea that you both had, and I know it's gone through shifts and changes. So can you talk about the different ups and downs and the path that you chose?


Jessie Slayback  

We always laugh. We should. We really should have written a book, and we'd be somewhere near, like Chapter 132 by now, right? Yeah, but yeah, I think a lot of it is, you know what? The first thing is. We started with one student. So you have to be bold and brave enough to know, okay, we're going to start here. Hopefully we can get here, you know. And just have to go for it. 


Vicky Forsman

Well, we started with one student, and then Jesse and her students. So Jess was pregnant, and we decided that we were just going to go ahead and do this anyways. 


Jessie Slayback 

That's right.


Vicky Forsman  

So Jesse also was an incredible piano instructor and nerdy piano students, and I was, like, nodding off sometimes, yeah, and then, interestingly enough, the first building we were at, because, again, like we had no money to our name Lily. This was not like an endeavor where we sent letters to every single human being we know knew, saying we have this crazy idea. You. Even $5 will help. And I think we ended up with maybe a couple 1000 from that. I don't know. It wasn't anything that would pay rent, but we happen to find this building and stayed there, and we're like, Okay, this is it. We can grow here. This is good. And then the college bought the building. So Santa Monica College bought the building, they sold it, and we had, like, I don't know, three weeks to find a new location before we had already booked a summer camp or winter camp. Yeah, winter camp, and didn't know what we were going to do, still had no money to our name because that one student in 40 piano students only paid rent. Do you know what happened? Then our landlord, out of nowhere, handed us a check for every penny we had paid in rent.


Lily Jones  

Yeah, amazing. That's amazing. 


Vicky Forsman  

Open up the door for us to let us get to the next step, to a next step, and that's our journey has been like that the entire time. It's been divinely blessed. Kind of want to grow, but we right now, we don't have the resources yet, and we're in one of those growth phases right now, because we're in a building that has served us really well for the last 15 years, but we're busting at the scenes, and we also have more vision that we want to create. So we're in the process of looking for new spaces. At the same time, for about 14 years, we've just been like heads down, working on this all the time. And then last year, we decided we're going to go out in the world, and we're going to start going to conferences, and we're going to start talking to people, doing podcasts, all these amazing people that are up to such great things, and realize that some people are at the beginning of this journey, and we've been at it for 15 years. We want to support and try to, like, work together, yeah, make these things happen. 


Jessie Slayback  

We're also opening a high school in the fall. We decided we couldn't keep it to and that only happened because Vic and I swore no way we are out of our range of x, like, we can't, if we just came, and then what happens? The Universe send us Hayden, who took a call like we never checked LinkedIn. He happened to check LinkedIn. We checked LinkedIn, took a call with him. And as we got in conversations with this human, we realized this person needs to do this. He that's perfect this. He needs to do this. He's on a mission, and so now he's opening up our high school.


Lily Jones  

that's amazing. Thank you.


Jessie Slayback  

And then now, like phase 53 now is we want to support other educators to open up their own micro schools, their own schools, or learn from us, and try to do something kind of REALM style, where we're currently working right now, on really honing in on what are, what are our processes? What are our systems that we use forever? We've been trying to use registration systems that that are already created, but they don't really work for us because we offer like, 120 classes every semester. We have 150 families all creating their own schedule with all these unique special needs, and we realized we just need to build our own so now we're working with software companies to try to build our own register, like the REALM, right? So then make it easier for someone to be like, Yes, I believe in this style of education. Here's a registration system that works. Here's sort of a way to think about your staffing. Here's a way in which to create the schedule. Here's sort of what your calendar can look like. Go, fly, come to us, and we'll help train and teach you more things, because we basically started with a chalkboard.


Lily Jones  

Sure we don't know what you needed when you're doing it right, it grows, and you figure it out, and then I think it's so interesting. I mean, it's like, talk about evolution, right? Like you all reflect on your evolution and the things that you figured out, and being like, Oh, now there are people who need to figure that same thing out. Let me help you. We have these tools, and we have these this framework that you can use.


Jessie Slayback  

REALM is built to be adaptable. You know, the whole idea is to adapt. So when the world needs us to be teaching kids different things, we do that. We adapt to that. When we were in the COVID crisis and there was a lot of social injustice happening, we adapted. We switched. We had a lot of our classes learning about these really important, Hot Topic issues. When we now have this incredible tires, oh, the fires. We have to adapt. I changed my literacy


Vicky Forsman  

when you said, like, this continuous, one thing after another, and


Jessie Slayback  

we have to address that. We can't just pretend it doesn't exist. Our kids deserve to be taught and to be learning through this. And then again, like AI. There are a lot of educational places that are saying like, Oh, we need to make sure that kids aren't using AI to write their essays. And we need to make sure, no, no, we need to make sure they know how to use this tool. And then we have to decide, what are the things that they can't use AI for now that we need to teach them those skills, right? Constant evolution and adaptation.


Lily Jones  

Yes, absolutely. Right? Yeah. I think the AI conversation is so interesting. I actually had an interview with Howard Gardner earlier this week, living legend, and he super interested in AI, yeah. And so he was talking about, like, all the things that AI can and can't do, right? And, like, he's obviously focused also on, like, arts education, and arts education in the time of AI, and thinking about, you know, how we're going to shift education with this new tool, and what it can and can't get, we kept saying, like, AI can't give a kid a hug, right? Like, we need to be there for all that, but AI can take down the time that it takes to do kind of menial tasks. Yeah? The tool that, like, if we're using, kids should learn how to use too, yeah?


Jessie Slayback  

And I think it's this interesting thing too, because we depended in education on standards, right? Like, here are the standards here, and unfortunately, they've just gotten so diluted, and there's so many of them. How do you shift and adapt those standards based on the changing world? Right? So at REALM, it's not that we don't live by standards. There are certain things we want all kids to be able to do and to know, but we've just condensed it. We've created what's called our continuums, and that's kind of how we we attune to making sure they're learning these core skills and these these applied skills, but at the same time, can shift and change as the world needs it, which I think is important. Yeah,


Lily Jones  

I think that's so interesting. Thinking about standards that way too. I've never really had that frame of thinking about standards as being kind of stuck, like it's like, there's, you know, like, as a curriculum developer, like, I use standards all the time, but also it's not the only thing, right, right? And learning is dynamic, and the world is dynamic and always changing. And so thinking about it as, like, one piece of the puzzle. Yep, not like everything needs to be completely aligned to these archaic standards,


Jessie Slayback  

yeah, and it's hard. It's because they do have their place. I mean, the educational system is huge, again, probably another problem, you know, you how can that account for all the different needs in individual communities? You know, I imagine when, when other REALMs do start opening other places, they're going to look completely different. And they should, it should be based on what that community needs, what that community is created from it, and


Vicky Forsman  

the leaders that bring their passions into it, yeah, you know, I just feel the only other thing that I it makes me think of too, that's really important, and I think is missing sometimes in other education is that social emotional piece, and really like attending to each human, you know, the layers that they are as well. So I feel like that's that's also something that we value and really want to emphasize as an important part of education.


Lily Jones  

Yep, yes, and particularly now, when social and emotional learning has been very weaponized and taken out of many public schools, which is like so hard to wrap my head around, I think it's extra important, given what we were just saying about all the tragedies and all the things that everyone is dealing with, to focus on all parts of being a human Absolutely,


Jessie Slayback  

you can't make sections of the world just go away because you don't put them in education, right? We have to learn how to discuss it and talk about it and think about it and ponder it. You know, this whole idea of banning books and getting rid of, rid of, you know, LGBTQ information like, no, no, no, no, no. That's not how. Open the conversation and open the door. Otherwise, we're just letting kids learn from misinformation, learn from social media and learn from each other in a way that always isn't the most informed. Right? We have to help them stretch their brains and their ideas and check this really stretch that scope of what the world is absolutely


Lily Jones  

and so thinking about running REALM, I know you've had many different approaches or ways of starting things and trying things, and I want to think about what you both have learned about yourselves through it. 


Jessie Slayback  

I've learned that I'm far more capable than I ever thought I was. Yeah, more resilient, yeah, um, I think I've learned to


Jessie Slayback  

be 100%


Jessie Slayback  

happy and okay with struggle, with allowing struggle into my life, allowing anxiety into my life, being okay with the fact that I'm going to fail, and I'm going to fail a lot, and that is the road to to being even a better person.


Lily Jones  

I have to, like, clap that, you know, like, I think I've been reflecting on my journey as a business owner and leaving the classroom, and it has been getting more comfortable. And it's a journey. I'm not 100% necessarily struggle, but it's like struggle and uncertainty, like when I can kind of confront that or accept it as part of the journey. It's really when everything can happen. And so when we fight against it or try to avoid it, or try to avoid the pain that might come up with struggle and a lot of how we grow and learn and get to where we want to go, is through it. 


Jessie Slayback  

Nailed it. Yep, 100%


Vicky Forsman  

Yeah. I think for me, it's just been developing resilience. I think some of that comes with age and enough rounds of, you know, in the boxing ring with especially when you're trying to take on a project that has an alternative nature to it. And people question it. A lot, doubt you a lot, disagree with you a lot. And just having the ability to see, you know, generations of kids cycle through these types of experiences and see the benefits that come out on the other side, to be able to support the vision that we're tirelessly, you know, passionately committedly working on all the time, it just kind of makes those questions, makes those doubts, yeah, occur in a very, you know, deluded way. Now, instead of, you know, trying to defend it or trying to convince I don't think we do that anymore. I think now we're in a state where we're just allowing everybody to choose what's right for them, and then help people on their path. If this is not the right formula for them, and that's okay.


Jessie Slayback  

 Do you know what I think's come with me too. I've developed this, this insane patience, knowing that I'm going to be giving love and learning and so much to a kid. And there might be 10 years when I'm like, What in the bananas there's it's just not. What am I doing wrong? And then they'll walk in the door as a 17 year old and like, thank us for the journey they were on, and be this well presented human who's like, working on a nuclear fusion reactor at MIT, or like is starting their own restaurant. And they just are, you know, a lot of times very reflective. Like, I am so sorry, what I was all always try to remind parents, too, it is hard as a parent, because day to day to day, you just keep seeing them muff up and flop and you know you're like, What are you doing? I just told you that. But it's patience, it's it's knowing that if you are proceeding with love, if you're proceeding with with non judgment and like with your core values in line, it's going to be okay. It's going to work, you know. But you do. You can't rush the process. You can't rush it. That's the


Vicky Forsman  

one other thing I feel like it's kind of taboo, but I think love is one of the most important ingredients. I think knows it. You know it's like when you have to, when you're spending like day after day with these humans through all of their ups and downs, through all of their growing. That piece is in place. So I just, I feel like we embrace that here. We connect with families in a way that our relationships are long term. They're not just like trans cycled through and now you're done. You know, it's like, it's been a beautiful, long term relationship with a lot of kids.


Lily Jones  

It's so beautiful. Yeah, I would always reflect on, like, my classroom management strategy. It was really just love, you know, loving kids through their struggles and through all of the things, and seeing them like it was love, yeah, no, I think so many things like, whether it's families or with kids or with other teachers, like, if we can lead with love, that's the most amazing starting point.


Jessie Slayback  

Yep, yeah. And I think I could probably speak for Vic, but the thing we still struggle with, that we're still trying to figure the piece out, is financial, you know, it's really trying to create a place because we do not want kids to be the commodity. We do not believe in high priced education, because it really it changes the community that the school is, and it makes it so unaccessible to so many people. However, we are in a building in the middle of Santa Monica, you know, so that we have all kinds of people. And it's, it's a challenge. I would say, if anything is the biggest challenge for us, it's real estate. It's like trying to understand how these models can operate without raising prices on families and kids without we've never depended on philanthropic money at all. We've always just strapped it, you know, from one year to the next. But that's the next puzzle piece is, how do we get more buy in from either the city so they're willing to give us a space that we then don't have to continue to have prices reflect what we're paying in rent, or, I don't know, again, this is the, this is the next stage. Any of your listeners? Solution? Yeah,


Lily Jones  

I love thinking about this stuff. I mean, I hear you. I think it's like a scaling problem, right? Like, okay, what it's going to take us to this next level. But I think that like training other schools, right people, other people with your model, and doing the software like that feels very scalable. And even if it's a software that is, could be separate from the REALM, you know, approach to, you know, like it could be either


Jessie Slayback  

or that feels well. And we're, we're finding that this is the path that. Education is taking you know, if you go someplace in Florida where school choice is much more part of the conversation, we're seeing that schools are actually changing into these much more choice based models. So I think you're right. I mean, these systems are going to be needed sooner rather than later. So I think that is, that is a piece of the puzzle. Yeah, we're calling this next stage. What was it? Scaling individuality? Ooh, yes,


Lily Jones  

right. Yes, that's right, awesome. Well, my last question is, what advice would you give educators who are maybe listening and feeling inspired and wanting start their own thing?

Vicky Forsman  

I say, Yes, reach out. Yep, you know what? In whatever ways we can support teachers and inspire them, we will. We've now also started to create 15 years worth of curriculum that teachers have written in all different teaching styles that we want to make accessible teachers and you know, the REALM always has its doors open for teachers that want to come in, or, you know, teach in an alternative model. Rose, yep, happy to meet you. 

Jessie Slayback  

And then if you do, if you are interested in the REALM  model, you can go to our website, and there's a button that you can click to just send us a quick email that you're interested in. This kind of education. We've already had about 15 people from 13 different states have been meeting with me on about a monthly basis to just discuss what this looks like and what the path can be and and all I want to be right now for them, because we don't have this all modeled out yet, but just as a support person, a sounding board, someone who's been doing it for a long time, and just like your cheerleader, like a personal cheerleader in your corner saying you absolutely can do this. You absolutely have the ability.

Lily Jones  

Yep, wonderful. And we'll put the link to your website below. Is that the best place where people can connect with you? Yes, yeah, absolutely great. Well, thank you so much. It was such a pleasure talking with both of you, and I'm so excited to hear where REALM goes next.


Vicky Forsman  

Thank you, Lily, great so much. We appreciate your time


Lily Jones  

Absolutely.


Transcribed by https://otter.ai



Lily Jones