Episode 10: Working Beyond the Classroom with Rozanne Rosenberg
On the podcast, I’m constantly talking about your marketable skills, jobs you can do outside of teaching, and guests who have started their own education businesses. However, some of you still might be thinking, but does that apply to me? Can I really do that? I’m here to tell you again, yes! Today’s episode, I have guest Rozane Rosenberg, who just like you, had some reservations about working beyond the classroom, but she went for it and is succeeding!
Working in several different careers, Rozanne shares her path to becoming a freelancer who works on a variety of projects from curriculum designer, editor, writer, and content creator. Rozanne was apprehensive about working beyond the classroom, but after taking Educator Forever courses, it gave her the confidence to follow a new career path, which she believes was well worth it!
Acknowledging that it can be challenging starting out, Rozanne does promise that the flexibility, variety in projects, and new work environment makes working beyond the classroom the perfect fit for educators wanting a new career. For those still doubting if you should take the leap, we’re here to tell you to do it, for you won’t regret it!
Topics Discussed:
Rozanne shares her unique career journey and how she found her way to Educator Forever
Advice to those considering leaving the classroom for a new career
Insight to how the skills you possess are in demand and needed for freelance jobs
How Educator Forever courses help give confidence and support to work beyond the classroom
Resources mentioned:
Take our FREE quiz to nail down your next best career step in education.
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Meet Rozanne
Rozanne Rosenberg worked in the publishing industry for five years and then as an elementary educator for a decade. She has a bachelor's degree in Journalism from Boston University's College of Communications and a master's degree in Childhood General and Special Education from Bank Street College of Education, as well as an Advanced Certificate in Gifted Education from CUNY - Hunter. Rozanne found Lily Jones and the Educator Forever community when she was feeling burned out and looking to leave the classroom but still stay in the education industry. Being part of Educator Forever has been truly life-changing for her. Rozanne now works as an Assistant Director of Communications for an independent school in New York and as a freelance curriculum developer, writer, editor and content creator. She has written, designed, and edited curriculum and assessments across grade levels for larger curriculum companies, TpT sellers, WeAreTeachers, and the Educator Forever Agency.
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Read the transcript for this episode:
Lily
Rozanne Rosenberg worked in the publishing industry for five years and then as an elementary educator for a decade. She has a bachelor's degree in journalism from Boston University's College of Communications and a master's degree in childhood general and special education from Bank Street College of Education, as well as an Advanced Certificate and gifted education.
Lily
Rozanne found the Educator Forever community when she was feeling burnt out and looking to leave the classroom but still stay in the education industry. She says that being part of Educator Forever has been truly life changing for her which we love to hear.
Lily
Rozanne now works as an assistant director of communications for an independent school in New York and as a freelance curriculum developer, writer, editor and content creator.
Lily
She has written designed and edited curriculum and assessments across grade levels for larger curriculum companies, TPT sellers, We Are Teachers and us here at the Educator Forever Agency.
Lily
Welcome, Rozanne, I'm so glad to have you here with us today.
Rozanne
So excited to be here.
Lily
Yay. Awesome. Well, I'm gonna start with a gigantic question that I always start with, which is tell us about your journey as an educator.
Rozanne
Sure. So I'm a career changer into the world of education. I actually started out getting my bachelor's degree in print journalism from Boston University. And I started off in the workforce as a copy editor for a publishing company that produced trade magazines.
Rozanne
So it was definitely a far cry from the glamour and glitz of travel writing that I thought I would be doing for like the New York Times or Conde Nast. So yeah, after about five years of that, I started looking for something else, I felt like I was getting a little bored. Like the world of especially a monthly magazine, there's like two weeks where it's really busy right before it's due to the printer, and then two weeks where it was just very low.
Rozanne
And so that kind of cyclical aspect, like I'm very much a doer, so I really wanted something that was a little bit more consistently exciting every day. And so teaching kind of kept weirdly popping into my life. So at the time, my now husband then boyfriend, like his mother was a teacher for decades. So we talked about that a lot.
Rozanne
And my nephews were young and had just started elementary school. So my cousin was kind of talking my ear off about their education. And she was actually the one who suggested Bank Street College to me, which is where I went for grad school. And so I did it for a year while still working in publishing, because I really, like needed to make sure that it was what I wanted to do.
Rozanne
Yeah, yeah, that first year was all like very theoretical grad courses. And I like totally fell in love with it. And I was like, Okay, this is what I'm going to do. So I quit the year after, and did full on student teaching for three days a week while doing classes. And, yeah, it was great. I loved it.
Rozanne
After that, I got my certification, got my master's degree, and worked as an associate teacher for three years at two different schools. Again, like, I probably could have been a lead teacher in a classroom, but I really wanted to, like get that extra experience. And being an associate was like the perfect balance, like I had responsibilities, but I had a mentor teacher, so like, not everything was on my shoulders.
Rozanne
And then I went through an associate teacher program at the second school where I worked that was like two years long. So after that, they were like, We love you, but goodbye. So I ended up finding a position as a co head teaching second grade of the school for gifted kids in New York City.
Rozanne
And that was interesting too, because it was like, we split responsibility evenly, but there was two of us. So you could always kind of rely on somebody to be there if you were out or if you needed something. So it was a nice balance. I taught there for four years. And then my final year there was the pandemic. So we like finished the year with those kids online.
Rozanne
And at that point, my husband and I had moved out to the suburbs. And so I had been commuting for the year and I was already like starting to think that it wasn't gonna work. And then especially with a pandemic, I was like, I can't go back into the city. So I found a job closer to home teaching third and fourth grade at a Jewish Day School, which was really fun. And I enjoyed it. I liked my team.
Rozanne
But at that point, I was kind of already starting to like get that itch again. That like maybe this isn't what I want to do for the rest of my life. Like I love teaching. I loved being with kids, but the parts of it that I really enjoyed the most were really like curriculum development and talking to my teacher friends about curriculum and creating exciting lessons for students.
Rozanne
And between those two jobs, when I was transitioning over to the school in Jersey, I had applied for a Teach for Justice grant from TPT. That summer, they were doing these grants to like boost social justice and DI resources on their website.
Rozanne
And so with a colleague of mine, we got the grant and we developed this cool resource. And that kind of kicked off my very small start to my TPT shop, but also really, like lit this fire in me and and I was like, Okay, this is what I want to do.
Rozanne
But I really went into it kind of thinking that I would be like a curriculum director at a school, because that's the only position that I thought was out there in that world. And that's when I found you.
Lily
Awesome. Well, tell us about how I know you've been in our Educator Forever community for a while, and you're totally a star student. So we'd love to hear about your journey, taking Educator Forever courses, trying things outside of the classroom, and how that worked out for you.
Rozanne
Definitely. Yeah, so I think I found you I think it was like a Facebook ad. So kudos, by the way on your advertising, because I see it everywhere. But yeah, I think it was a Facebook ad.
Rozanne
And I actually went into the course thinking that it was more of like a how to be a curriculum coordinator at a school type, of course. And it was like the free masterclass, and I took it and I was just like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. I want to know more.
Rozanne
Yes, I like immediately signed up for the beyond the classroom course. And yeah, it was great. Just like the, you know, I say that I've told this to you before. And I know it's cliche, but like, finding it was like life changing for me.
Lily
Yeah, I'm so glad. I mean, that is truly awesome.
Rozanne
Yeah. And just like realizing that there was so much of this type of work out there. And, you know, kind of what kept me coming back was that you do have this like, really personal connection with the people that you have in Educator Forever. And it's such like a supportive community.
Rozanne
And I love the fact that there are the, you know, in person Zoom calls, and like, I never feel like, I'm one of like, 200 people just listening to you talk, right? Like, you know, who I am, you like, totally support the people that are in your network and like, help us find things that are right fit for us, whether that's working with you or working somewhere else. So I really loved that.
Rozanne
And I'm in the accelerator course now, which is really cool. Because I think it's like, it's an interesting way to look at other areas that I could grow this business in and doing this work in other ways. I think by the time that you launched the curriculum course, I had already had like a pretty solid portfolio. So I didn't take that one. But I totally would have.
Lily
That's awesome. Well, I know you started doing some contract work while being a classroom teacher. Yeah. And how was that both, like, can you talk about some of the types of work that you did? And also just how was that balancing being a classroom teacher? Being a mom and doing this work on the side?
Rozanne
Yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna lie, it was challenging. It was definitely hard to like, find that balance in terms of time. But it was also like weirdly invigorating, because I was finally doing something that I was passionate about. So I think it was definitely a balance at first to try to figure out like, which types of contracts, how much time I could devote.
Rozanne
And I also was starting to feel like this was what I wanted to do. And so I was starting to think about exiting the classroom. And I had that like, intense anxiety of, oh, my gosh, I have to take on all the work so that when I do need this, I have it. But at the same time, I can't do that.
Lily
Yes, it's so hard. Yeah.
Rozanne
Knowing that and being like, it's okay. So what's good is that I took on, you know, one of the first places that I actually applied was like A Pass. and so it was nice, because I could take on contracts as I felt like I can handle them, right.
Rozanne
So it wasn't like, oh, my gosh, if I don't do this one contract, I'm going to lose this client. It was very much like, okay, so I did one this month. I can't do one next month. That's okay. Another one will come the month after that. So that was a nice balance for me.
Rozanne
And then, you know, I am glad that I did it that way, because I'm way too cautious to just like jump in headfirst. I needed that confidence and that proof that like I could make this work. Yeah. And then so I did, I did that.
Rozanne
And then there are other companies like that, that I started to also apply to like Ink Splash and things like that. And then a lot of the work that I had started to do was basically they call it like virtual assistant work for other TPT sellers.
Rozanne
So there's like a Facebook group that you can join if that's something that you're interested in. And the pay is not the highest because these are also people that are like trying to build their own business and they have to make money too.
Rozanne
But it's enough where it was like sustainable and fun. And there's different types of work which I like too, like some of my clients from there are strictly like copy editing, some of them are design work, some of them are like content creation and design work. So there's a lot of different types of things that you can do working for other people who are trying to sell curriculum.
Lily
Yeah, that's awesome. That's totally a world that I didn't even really know it was out there until you kind of dip your feet into it in our community. So it was cool to see how we can help each other, you know, other people doing TPT stuff also need help. And yeah, I totally also agree of just like the phases of going through finding contract work were very similar for me as a classroom teacher.
Lily
First was just like, what is out there? Can I do this? Like, what can I do? And just trying the things and once you start to get contracts, it often becomes like too much, and especially in that like messy middle, while you're still a classroom teacher, trying to get enough to make it work full time, but not there yet. Like, it's just gonna be a lot of work.
Lily
I think it's kind of unavoidable, but I appreciate what you said about like, it's also invigorating. Like, I found that too, that, even when you're like, oh my gosh, I'm a burnout teacher, like, what else can I do? I have no energy and no time, it actually, if you find the right thing can be like this light that gives you energy going forward.
Lily
Absolutely. So talk to us, it seems like you use your publishing background through many different ways working beyond the classroom, can you tell us how that's been an asset or how you've used that?
Rozanne
Yeah, I'm definitely so grateful for my experience in publishing. And I feel like it gives me a little bit of a leg up because I can write content, but I also can, like design it. And if a client is looking for that, like that can be really helpful. And I mean, I started off in publishing, working in Cork, which I don't think even existed.
Rozanne
And then we moved into like the whole Adobe Suite. So like I'm pretty comfortable with like Photoshop and InDesign. And so figuring out things like Canva, or PowerPoint came a little bit more naturally to me, because they're a little bit more user friendly types of programs. So I think that's definitely been helpful.
Rozanne
And then like I said, some of my clients have been strictly editing clients. And so having that as something that I did professionally, I think kind of helps on the resume to be like, Look, I actually copy edited for a living. I got paid to do it professionally. So that's really cool.
Rozanne
And I'm, you know, I'm a big believer that there's no knowledge that isn't helpful knowledge. Totally. Yeah, I think anything tangentially related to the work that you want to do can come back and be really helpful.
Lily
Yeah, I think that's cool. And yours is maybe a more clear connection, right. But I think that's true people who have, you know, banking experience or something like that, like, I'm sure there are ways that they can work that in to a next step and education too.
Lily
And it's sometimes not clear until you're in it and doing it and like, Oh, I did that in a previous job, or, Oh, I have this skill from like playing around on my computer, or whatever it is. So that's awesome. And then what surprised you about working beyond the classroom?
Rozanne
So honestly, how much I loved it, because I went into this work, thinking, like I said, that I would work for a school. And I had no idea that there was like this whole world of curriculum development outside of schools, or like tangential to schools. So that was really eye opening.
Rozanne
What also surprised me was the fact that there's like constant demand for this type of work. Like when I started, I really thought, Okay, I'll get like one contract. But that'll be it, right? And it's so not the case. And especially like, when you know, where to look and what to look for. There's constant work.
Rozanne
And it's not, it's not constant, consistent work, right? Like it is, especially if you aren't working for a company, if you're working as a freelancer, that's kind of just the nature of the business.
Rozanne
But I've had clients that I've worked with consistently who, when I thought I would be doing this full time I reached out to and they were like, Yeah, we have worked for you that we can give you for like 30 hours a week, right? And then there's just another 10 that I would have had to fill.
Rozanne
Or there's like one contract that comes up, that's like a nice hefty contract that won't last you know, for the entire year. But for those six months, it may be enough to last you for a year like if you're trying to supplement your teaching income.
Rozanne
So I think that that's what was really surprising was that A, there's always work and B, even though it might not be super consistent, it's enough to kind of sustain what you want to do and to do this work.
Lily
Yes, absolutely. I know it's kind of like the juggle of a freelancer right? Some people want to have one full time job, right? That's easier in a lot of ways, right? But then I have always lived in the world of like freelance, project-based because number one, the flexibility, number two like you can make a lot more money that way because you're taking on different projects. And number three, because I kind of like it.
Lily
You know, like that part of being like I don't know what I'm gonna be doing it entirely for the entire year are like, I'm going to do this project for three months, and then this thing for six months, that works for my brain. And so I think it's also like, self discovery of if that works for people if they like it.
Lily
And it's always kind of like a puzzle of just, oh, is this going to be too much? Like, is this going to be too little? When is this project gonna come in? Or how am I going to line things up that way?
Rozanne
Yeah. And I like that it also gives me a little bit more flexibility in terms of, like you said, like the types of projects that I take on because sometimes I am too burned out or exhausted to like, actually sit down and write a thoughtful curriculum.
Rozanne
But I'm not to design a worksheet, you know, or to like, update clipart for someone who doesn't want to take the time to do it for themselves, like so there's lots of these smaller, kind of more brainless tasks that I can totally do when I'm tired. But then, you know, when I'm a little bit more refreshed, I can take on those like, writing actual content or creating curriculum.
Lily
Yes, absolutely. I dealt with the same thing when I was doing lots of different projects, where I was like, Alright, I really liked the like creative, like design a curriculum thing. But that's pretty unsustainable to do all day, every day, just in terms of your brain.
Lily
And so I was doing a lot of like, standards alignment for the fluffy in my head side of things, just like, Oh, I could put on a movie and like align things to standards, and it's pretty mindless after you've been doing it for a while.
Lily
Yeah, yeah, I like that idea of the balance, too. Super important. All right. So thinking about your career going forward, where do you see yourself?
Rozanne
Yeah, so I actually full on unexpected this year to be doing this work, doing freelance curriculum work, and honestly had I not thought that that's what I was going to do, I probably wouldn't have had the guts to quit my teaching job. So I went into it, like I had quit in March, I was ready to do it.
Rozanne
And then this position of like, an Assistant Director of Communications at a school popped up, and I kind of just applied on a whim, thinking like, alright, if I get it, I get it. If I don't, I don't. And I got it. So that's what I'm doing now. And I love it. But my heart definitely is still in curriculum and curriculum work. So I'm grateful that I can still do that as a freelancer right now.
Rozanne
But I'm thinking that eventually, I'll probably move back onto that kind of path. But it's nice, because I'm definitely, my job now is very much like eight to four, unless there's some kind of wacky emergency, which rarely happens. So I leave my office and I leave work at work. So when I get home, I really can like, fully devote my time to my son, but then once he is down for bed, I can do the the freelance work that I love.
Lily
Yes, that's awesome. Well, I'm excited about you trying this new role, too, because it's different, you know, you get to learn things from it. And even though it wasn't exactly as you planned, it's still really cool. And you're learning things to the process. And it gave you the courage to quit your job.
Lily
So what would you say to people who are considering working beyond the classroom? You know, imagine yourself several years ago, as a burnout classroom teacher, what advice would you give them?
Rozanne
Do it! My first piece of advice. I mean, it's challenging, it is challenging at first, but I think once you find the right rhythm, it's so worth it. And as an educator, you have so many skills, and there's so needed and in demand, which I think took me finding you to figure that out. Right? Like I was very much in the well. Alright, so I already changed careers into education, am I really going to change careers again?
Rozanne
Like, what am I going to do? I've been a teacher for 10 years, you know, so really hearing that, like, yes, you have skills. Yes, they are in demand. Yes, there are people out there looking for them. And I think it's really just a matter of finding the right places to look, and like marketing yourself in the right ways to really like capitalize on those skills.
Rozanne
And I would say, don't be afraid to apply to literally everything that looks interesting to you. Even if you feel like you aren't entirely qualified, because like you never know what they're looking for. And don't count yourself out. Like let them reject you don't reject yourself.
Rozanne
And I would definitely say like leverage your network. I know, we've been talking about this a lot in Educator Forever and like in the business accelerator course. But I think once you know, people, even if they're people outside of education, reach out to people. A lot of the work that I've gotten has been just because I reached out.
Rozanne
Like one contract that I had over the summer, I was actually a part of this person's membership as a teacher, and I saw that they had posted, oh, I'm looking for help, you know, updating my products. And I was like, Hey, I love your products. I've used your products. I do this work. Yes. And it turned into like a really good relationship that could continue, you know.
Rozanne
And it's funny, I actually, I had applied to something like half a year ago, and the person was like, Oh, thank you so much I hired someone for this position, but I'll keep your name on file. And I'm always like, yeah, okay, sure. Whatever. And then she, like just reached out and was like, Hey, are you still doing this type of work because I have a project that I need help with. And I was like, absolutely.
Rozanne
You know, if I do a good job, which I will, because I do a good job. That's a new relationship, you know. And then again, it's not going to be like a super consistent every month type of thing. But every once in a while, like a few extra $100 is always is always nice to have. Absolutely.
Rozanne
And I'd say like, for anyone who's hesitant, or not sure, like I was at the beginning, I would definitely take courses through Educator Forever. And then kind of do what I did. And then also what you did, and like, start slow, with some part time work, see if it's a good fit.
Rozanne
I think there have been people who have gone one way thinking that that's what they would want to do. And then we're like, actually, I don't like that aspect of it, I want to do something else.
Rozanne
And I think that it's helpful to figure that out early on, so that you're not wasting a lot of time. But I think the courses are definitely so helpful. And the network itself is so helpful, and like nurturing, and everyone's kind of there to cheer you on and suggest jobs that could be good for you when they kind of know the types of skills that you're bringing.
Lily
Yes, totally. I mean, that's been such a joy to just see the community come together to help each other and get to know each other. And just the idea that like, we're not alone.
Lily
I know that when I started thinking about leaving the classroom, which was like over a decade ago, now, I felt pretty alone in figuring out my next step. So it's really beautiful and amazing to see our community come together to really support each other, trying new things, and not knowing what we're gonna do next. But just like having that desire, and the drive to go forward.
Lily
And I appreciate what you said too, about just like getting visible and maintaining your connections, too. Because I think sometimes we just have to say that we want to do things, you know, if you're like, hey, I want to get started in curriculum design.
Lily
It's like, Alright, start by saying that to people, even just your colleagues or even just your family members, or one person you worked with 10 years ago, like whatever it is, just like, hey, I'm interested in getting into curriculum design, you know, of anything that could be a good fit, give me a mind and just like practicing it and putting it out there. And you'll be surprised what like even a very baby step pool do.
Lily
And it often feels really scary just to be like, I'm interested in going forward down this path. I'm interested in leading PD sessions or doing coaching or like whatever it is, but just reaching out to people and like putting it out there is a great first step.
Lily
And then something to like build into practice, just like, hey, we work together five years ago, like do you have anything else that could be a good fit for me?
Rozanne
Definitely. And I think it also helps with like, making it feel less silly. Like I always felt like really silly, trying to say something like that people are like, Oh, what are you doing? You're like, Oh, I'm a teacher, like that just kind of came out naturally, I would be like, Oh, I sort of like develop curriculum and work for whoever.
Rozanne
The more you practice, the more it's like, no, I'm a curriculum developer. I work for these companies. I you know, yeah, I think it definitely helps.
Lily
Absolutely. And same thing, like you said, about applying for the job too, like it's all practice. And so it's like, even better to apply for a whole bunch of jobs and most of them you don't particularly care about, like it's practice. And it's practice getting clearer.
Lily
And as long as we take it as like active practice, that we're not just like throwing out resumes, or like emails that we don't think about, but really thinking about, like, what is working? How can I tweak it? How can I test things out and see what resonates along the way? Definitely.
Lily
Well, I'd love to end with two very broad questions. Again, they're kind of twofold. So I'm going to ask them together. One is what frustrates you about education? And the other is what excites you about education? Answer in whatever order you see fit.
Rozanne
Definitely big questions. So I think what really excites me about education is like, I'm really passionate about social justice education and interdisciplinary curriculum. And I think like finding those connections between in and across content areas is what even in the classroom lit me up as a teacher, and the type of curriculum that I love to design.
Rozanne
What frustrates me is that that type of work is really rare. And I think teachers, especially now, mid and post and within pandemic have been so siloed and, you know, it's like, alright, math block, literacy block. Like, I don't think that that is the way that children learn, nor is it really reflective of what the world is like, right? Like, very rarely do you work in a silo by yourself on one type of thing.
Rozanne
Yes, absolutely. So I wish that schools and I know that there are people out there trying to do this work and a lot more of that is happening now, especially with like flipped classrooms and things like that.
Rozanne
But I wish that schools and, you know, the ether of education would really put more time and effort into developing those types of interdisciplinary curricula. And you know, thinking about how to get students to really start solving like real world problems and acting for change.
Lily
Yes me too. I mean that so invigorating and frustrating I would say you know that there are a lot of cool things going on around integrated learning and project based learning and all the things and then also seeing how much is put on to teachers to teach like math and reading and very little else or even the connection between those or anything that could be more holistic.
Lily
So I love though that you're using some of your work to develop curriculum and supports around those areas that you see as a big need out there. Thanks. Well, it's been great talking with you. Can you tell our listeners where to find you?
Rozanne
Absolutely. So I am on Instagram at @knowsyrosyresources. That's also my TPT store is Knowsy Rosy. So you can find me there. Please follow say hello. And reach out. I'd love to get connected. And I'm also on LinkedIn at Rozanne Rosenberg.
Lily
Awesome. Well, we'll put all the links in the show notes. And thanks again for joining us. It's always wonderful to talk with you and to hear more about your story.
Rozanne
Thank you so much. I'm so excited for the podcast. I listen every week.