Episode 82: Stages of an Educator's Career Journey with April Brown

Today I'm so excited that we have April Brown, Educator Forever’s Director of Learning and Development, here with me to talk about the various stages that educators may go through when moving beyond the classroom. April and I have been working together for 5+ years, and we have worked with thousands of teachers, expanding their impact beyond the classroom (whether they're classroom teachers working on the side flexibly or moving completely beyond the classroom).

Though everybody's journey is unique, we’ve found that people go through some similar phases along the way. So in the last few months, April, and I have really been doing a lot of thinking about what these phases are, and what are educators experiencing again and again. Today we want to walk you through these stages and really have you consider where you're at right now and where you might want to go. Not everybody goes through these exact stages in this order, but hopefully, this gives you some sense of what we've seen other educators experience, which will help you on your journey as well.

 

Topics Discussed:

  • Moving beyond the classroom is more than finding another job

  • Burnout isn’t just about working too much

  • Working past the imposter syndrome

Resources mentioned:

Related episodes and blog posts:

 
 
 
 

Read the transcript for this episode:

Welcome to Educator Forever, where we empower teachers to innovate education. Join us each week to hear stories of teachers expanding their impacts beyond the classroom and explore ways to reimagine teaching and learning.

Lily Jones  

Welcome, today I'm so excited that we have our amazing director of learning and development April Brown here with me to talk about the various stages that educators may go through when moving beyond the classroom. April that I have been working together for five years and maybe even more at this point, and together we have worked with 1000s of teachers, expanding their impact beyond the classroom, whether they're staying as classroom teachers or moving completely beyond. And though everybody's journey is unique, but we found that people go through some similar phases along the way. So in the last few months, April, and I have really been doing a lot of thinking about what these phases are. And what are some things that we see people experiencing again, and again and again. So today, we want to talk you through these stages, and really have you think about where you might fit where you're at right now where you might want to go, knowing that not everybody's gonna go through exactly these common stages. But hopefully, this gives you some sense of what we've seen other people experience. April, before I get into those stages, and welcome, is there anything that you want to add just about the stages, in our thinking around that,


April Brown  

I just want to say I'm so excited to be on the Educator Forever podcast, I love doing these with you. And I think that these phases really have come from, like Lily's dad, like we worked with 1000s of educators over the years, and kind of thinking about where we are and where we want to go and having more awareness around our journey. And I also think that these provide us with connection to other innovative educators who are doing similar things, it provides us with some language and some consistency around that. So I'm excited.


Lily Jones  

Yay, awesome, always so great to have you on. And I think really just this idea that, like you get to decide what path you're gonna go through. And I think that sometimes we can oversimplify it being like, “Alright, I'm gonna go start working in curriculum development.” So that just means going and getting a job. But actually, it means a lot more. And it often means going through different stages and phases, as we work out exactly what types of work we want to do and how we want to get clear on our expertise. So really just normalizing that it is a process, and that we all learn through that process as well. So let's dive in, I'm going to give an overview of these stages. And then we'll go into each of them in more depth. So the first one is becoming an educator, then often many of us experience burnout and exhaustion, before hopefully finding a community of supportive educators in that community, you can then move on to the next phase, which is seeing possibilities. So but often with that can come some overwhelm, and some impostor syndrome, which are next two stages. But with the right mindset, which can be a growth mindset, the next stage, we can then move on to imperfect success. So I know that's a lot that I just shared. But I want to go into each of these stages in more depth. So the first stage is really becoming an educator, one that we've all all probably been through or are going through, and often becoming an educator can be filled with so much learning and excitement. I know for me, I was so excited to have my own classroom and to be able to really dive into everything related to education. And so I felt like I had this passion for teaching still do you know, and felt so excited to be able to really dive into that. How about for you, April, how was that stage?


April Brown  

Yeah, I think for me becoming an educator like is exactly like what you said it was filled with excitement, it was filled with the good type of anxiety that propels us forward, right, like, go home and have my classroom, I'm going to do all of these things to drive change in education. And yeah, like, I do feel like in that stage two, I felt like I was going to be a classroom teacher until I retired like my mom, right? Like that was kind of my life's trajectory. Even though pretty early on, I did have a professor who was like, I could see you staying for about five years in the classroom until you're ready for something you know, for something else, which is interesting that I can reflect on that now. But I think that they saw that teachers are often limited and seeing innovative educators that want to do many different things. That's not a flaw or a weakness. So anyway, yeah, becoming an educator. I can remember that stage pretty vividly.


Lily Jones  

Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I thought I'd be a teacher forever to that's interesting. I don't think I really had somebody say anything that made me think like, Oh, I could possibly do Are these other things? And I remember seeing even like my beginning teacher coach, you know, like she had moved on to like a kind of different career, even in the same district, though. But she was like, older, like, I feel like she had just retired. And so even her like, she's the closest person I feel like at the beginning, but I saw doing something else. But she was like, you know, late 60s, I had been a teacher for 40 years or something like that before. So absolutely, it's interesting thinking about how seeing the possibilities at that stage can also influence the future. Yeah. Do you want to move on to stage two?


April Brown  

Yes, let's talk about stage two. So stage two, is burnout and exhaustion. And I think that we see this all the time at Educator Forever. When educators come to us, sometimes they are deep in stage two, and this is kind of where you're mentally and physically exhausted, we see low confidence, internalize toxic limiting beliefs from just working in a system that doesn't value us or our students. And, you know, I think it's important to consider, like, how burnout and exhaustion actually impact our bodies. So we can see so many different like, you know, responses like diminished creativity, hyper vigilance, wanting to be isolated from friends or family, because we don't have enough. You know, we don't have enough energy to really do anything outside of all of the checkboxes that we're expected to do as educators. And it makes me think of one of our students right now, who's going through one of our curriculum programs, wrote to me just kind of about like, hey, you know, I was supposed to be on break, but I and I was going to work on this curriculum program for myself. And I ended up having to grade all these papers, because our admin like, they don't prioritize our time off, right. And so like, there's that conversation. And I think it's important to recognize that in this stage, we may feel very stuck. Like there's no options. We feel conflicted, because we're like, Oh, my goodness, I'm being asked to do all these standardized tests, I'm being asked to teach this curriculum that's totally disconnected from my students. And I'm being like pitted against my colleagues in ways that feel totally gross. And so those are things that come up for us. But what about you, Lily? Like? I'm just curious, like, did you experience this? And was it like, really? Top of mind for you? Yes,


Lily Jones  

I definitely experienced it. And I definitely experienced this whole idea of like, my whole life felt consumed by teaching, and I appreciate you pointing out all the different parts of that. I think a part of that, too, which I heard you saying is really that it's not just about the workload, you know, like, yes, the workload of being a teacher is ridiculous, and like, totally not sustainable. But also burnout really happens when we are asked to do things that aren't aligned to our beliefs about education. And we're asked to teach in ways that aren't aligned to what our students need. And I definitely felt that as well, that really what was so Nying at me was like that I was working so hard. And still, my students weren't getting everything they needed. And some of that was not in my control. Like some of that was structural, and but there weren't enough support set or resources for my students. And I think when I think back on it, like, yes, it was the workload, but it was this idea of like, I'm working so hard. And still, it's not making the impact that I want it to make it and that really contributed to my burnout.


April Brown  

Mm hmm. I hear that. And I appreciate that. You also acknowledged like the multitude and the complexity there with the burnout, because it is so different for every educator to because all of our circumstances are different. And so I think for me, like when I think about my own burnout, it's like I was teaching in Belize, and I actually was teaching at a pretty fantastic school with like, a really committed educator, we, you know, started the school off the ground, but it was still, and this was before my daughters were born, it was still like 12 hour days, because it was a small school, I was doing coaching, I was doing PD I was teaching, you know, so even like the small micro schools that are rooted in more of like liberation and like developmentally appropriate practices, or you might not have to do all the bureaucratic stuff, you're still playing the role of like, caregiver counselor, you know, like you're, you're making sure that they're taken care of in like so many different ways, and also making sure that your teachers are taking care of it. So that was how burnout kind of came up for me was like, we want to start a family. Can I really possibly work from seven to seven every day? Like, is this feasible while making like nearly nothing, and so it wasn't like so it's interesting how it shows up in different ways, because it's just the intensity of everything when you're working in education. And sometimes that goes like even those schools that are driving change, and they are committed to what's best for students. You're still kind of exploiting teachers. Does that make sense?


Lily Jones  

Yes, absolutely. And I think it's a good reminder that like, it doesn't have to be like, Oh, I'm burnt out, because I'm in like, a really unhealthy toxic teaching situation, which like, is true for many of us. But also, it's okay to feel burnt out and exhausted, or even just like, you're ready for something new, even when things are going well. And so I think it's like, you know, sometimes we have this, this frame that we put on our own experiences, even like my second school, I taught that actually, it was really supportive, and I got to do really cool things. And it was completely exhausting. And so it's like, it's not either or, like, it can be all those things. And even if in this situation, where you're like, This is a great school, it was a great opportunity. I love what I'm doing. Like, it's okay to love what you're doing and also want to change it, I love what you're doing, I want to say like you get to decide. But so I think just really holding that piece to it doesn't have to be like, Oh, the final straw, like I'm gonna be moving on. Like, it really can just be more intentional than that.


April Brown  

I appreciate that. And it makes me think of how teachers are just they're not exposed to career pathways. Like, that's what comes up for me because it is it's like this, like conflict, you're like, I'm really burned out, what do I do? Who do I talk to about this? And so often to and we talk about this a lot, it's like, when you start to voice those things, a lot of folks within your inner circle, who are not committed to advocating for teachers in a way that's holistic, they'll be like, Oh, but you like you should do that you have to continue doing that. And like, why are you feeling this way? You're an educator, you should always stay an advocate, you know what I mean? So it's like, the burnout isn't necessarily just because of what's happening, like, within your teaching, it can be also it's, it's, it's exemplified by people who don't hold space, or acknowledge, a that you're looking for a change because you want a new challenge, or you want to do something else, or be that you're like, not into this anymore, because you're exhausted. So I feel like that's what comes up for me when I hear what you just said.


Lily Jones  

Yes, absolutely. That leads us perfectly to stage three, which is finding community. And really, I felt the same way that you just described of like, yeah, I only have that one, retired coach, who was a model of what it could look like to be an educator beyond the classroom. And so when you're in community with people, you really get the support that you need. And you get to intentionally pick out those people. So if you think about, you know, maybe it people in the staff room and the teacher lounge where you're like talking about maybe I want to do something else, some people will give a very limited reaction, right? And I'm like, Oh, well, I guess you could do that in the summer. Like, whatever, you know, they see it through their own frame. Other people might be more inviting to that and more supportive. So paying attention, I think to the reactions that you get, and kind of intentionally curating your own community, as you start to explore options can be really helpful as well. And I know for me, when I first started, I kind of like happened to into doing contract work while a classroom teacher, and then from there, I was like, Oh, is this a world out there? Like, are there more things that I could do like this, like, I really sat down this path without that community at the beginning. But through some of these experiences, I got to interact with other people. And so like, oh, this person who's now working at this educational nonprofit used to be a teacher, or this person who's creating curriculum for this edtech company used to be a teacher. And so starting to see, you know, these people in this, these roles are really allowed me to build my community as well. How did that look like for you? Yeah,


April Brown  

I love that. And it makes me think of the importance of representation for educators to see that their skills are, you know, transferable, right, because that's what I'm hearing from what you what you said with, like, just witnessing all of those different people who are successful. So for me, you know, I started designing curriculum, because I like used an ad tech website, and I got this email. And it was like, Hey, we're looking for teacher authors. And I had no idea that that even existed. So I was actually still teaching in Belize before my almost eight year old, was born. And I was like, Okay, I'm going to try this out, you know, having a growth mindset, like trying trying to take it on. And then I really did enjoy it. It was like really difficult, and I really enjoyed it. And then after my daughter was born, and we moved back to the States, I felt very isolated because I had just completed my master's in education. I was like looking into getting recertified. We were living in Austin, Texas, and it was like all of these hoops that I was gonna have to jump jump through, but like a one year old and I was like, This is so cool. exhausting to think about having to do all of this. And then I found Educator Forever, I found you and I found the network. And I really did realize, oh my goodness, there's so many ways that I can utilize my skills beyond the classroom in a way that still aligns with my values and aspirations. And so, you know, that's kind of making it seem very diluted, the all of the steps that I went through, like through that time, but having the community of educators to talk about my hopes and aspirations to like, also talk about the failures, right? It's like, I applied for 10 jobs this week, and I didn't get them. But understanding that educators are there to be like, Hey, me, too. But if you keep going, like, here's what's going to happen, like moving forward, and I do feel like this stage, to me is really about like filling your cup. And understanding that we can't do these things alone, like we do need community. And I think we know working with 1000s of educators, it is an imperative part of the puzzle beyond the classroom. But so often, teachers don't have the best memories of being in community with other educators because of the way that the system runs. So it can feel kind of scary. And then when they come in, they're like, oh, wait, no, this is what I need. Does that Yeah, yeah,


Lily Jones  

Absolutely. And I think it's like unpacking all the things of being a part of a very toxic school system. You know, they're you going back to like the intentional community, like I think we've all probably are many of us have had experiences in schools, where a lot of like, teacher interaction does focus on griping for like, you know, very like gossipy or kind of in this negative mode. And so, you know, maybe there's a place for some of that. But I think when you're really thinking about a supportive community, like it does live in more of like, a realm of possibilities, and like, true support, and so that might feel different. But it's also really awesome to be able to create that for yourself. Yeah, I totally agree. I'm sorry. But as you mentioned, to like we, you know, of course, Educator Forever, really want to be that community for all of you. And we do have also a paid membership community called our Educator Forever network, which April mentioned, which really provides a holistic support system for educators hoping to expand their impacts beyond the classroom, whether staying in the classroom or moving entirely beyond. So I'll put a link to that below as well.


April Brown  

Yes, just to kind of go continue on with the Educator Forever network. I think what's so just beautiful about about the network is that it's like a living and breathing ecosystem that we create intentionally based on the needs of our network members. And so like what you just said, you know, it's like, we have the coaching, we have weekly coaching, we have co working, we have creativity, wellness circles, all of the things that we know, and we hear that teachers need to be successful and to build sustainable and joy filled lives, beyond the classroom or within the classroom, whatever they choose to do.


Lily Jones  

Absolutely. Awesome. And so that leads us to stage four, which is really seeing possibilities, and you want to talk through that one April. Yeah.


April Brown  

So seeing possibilities. This is a fantastic stage. I think when people get to this point, they do feel hopeful, because I you know, Lily just mentioned, it's you're expanding your ideas of what an educator means, like, what does it mean to be an educator and reimagining what it means to be an educator. And so during this stage, you're really realizing, Oh, my goodness, there's so many ways that I can use my skills outside of the classroom, and I can stay in education, without self staffer sacrificing in a place or a school district or wherever you are, that doesn't value me as a whole human. I think during this stage, we also kind of disrupt the teacher as a martyr myth. I think that that comes up as well, because we're kind of like, oh, wait, there's ways that I can do this, where I'm not unable to do anything else. Right. I think that's what I think about when I think about this stage. And then also, we are definitely pushing back in this in this stage, we're coming to the realization that all of the false narratives that we were told about staying in education and only being an educator and then an admin, or like, you know, retiring as a classroom teacher, that that's just not true. Because we see it, we experienced it. And that's the beauty of our network, too, is that we have folks in all different stages, so they're able to see the process they're able to see it in real time and experience it And then I think also during the stage like for me, I feel like to some extent, I'm always in this stage, because I feel like I'm still like, wow, like, look at all of the ways that I can use my experience as an educator and make a wider impact. So I think that I live live in the stage, some, like still, and we say that, that we can coexist in different in different phases. But I think that, for me, when I really did have that lightbulb moment of, you know, okay, I see the possibilities. It was probably like, what, like six years ago after taking the beyond the classroom course, and being like, Oh, my goodness, there's all of these different ways. And then that was like, wow, and now I want to do I want to put in the work, you know, I know, it's not going to be easy. I want to put in the work to land these jobs to make sure that I'm positioning myself and getting visible. So yeah, it's an exciting stage to be in.


Lily Jones  

Absolutely. And I love that you say like, it's not something that's finite, right? Like, it's like, we can always be seeing possibilities. And we can, you know, also have periods of burnout, you know, all of these things might reappear. But knowing that, I mean, some of them are not going to last forever, we hope, like burnout. And hopefully, some will like seeing possibilities where it's really more about a mindset shift. And I know, for me, when I first started looking at curriculum development, and started to see like, oh, somebody wrote this, you know, what it was this whole new way of looking at things. And my perspective changed, that when I used an app, you know, with students, it was like, oh, somebody wrote these questions. When I used a textbook, it was like, oh, somebody wrote this. And so really just starting to shift and see that there are so many more possibilities than we might see within a school district. And that we've internalized this idea, feeling very limited, when really, there are so many different ways to drive change in education, and actually change some of the things that really frustrate us. And so it really is not only seeing, like, actual possibilities that you can do. But also seeing that like, these are the things that frustrated me about education, what if I actually changed lives, like that would be such a, I think a better place to be right to be living in that world of possibilities of like, alright, this is not working, how can we fix it?


April Brown  

Yes, I love that. That's such an important part.


Lily Jones  

And I think with that, too, like possibilities, you know, like we said, can be limitless. And that can be great. And it also can be overwhelming. So that leads us to stage five, which is overwhelming. And I think we've definitely seen this, I've certainly seen it myself, and we've definitely seen this in the network as well of students who come in, educators who come in, and they're really excited. They're like, Oh, my goodness, I could do this, I could do this, I could do this. And they're like, but I kind of want to do all the things. And then it becomes almost paralyzing perfect, because it's just overwhelming. And so normalizing that as part of a process of moving beyond the classroom. And also that sometimes we can holdable both our long term vision and short term goals. So some of this might be like, Oh, well, I really want to, you know, make the leap. And I want to be working flexibly as a virtual instructional coach, or whatever it might be. And it can be hard and overwhelming to see all the little steps in between. And so thinking about, Okay, this is a long term goal, this is something I want to explore. And then also breaking it down into smaller steps along the way, I've found to help with overwhelm. And I'd love to see what you found helpful in Stage Five, overwhelm,


April Brown  

Yeah, seats five. So I feel like for me, stage five, you know, when you first I like, the same as you, like, started with all of the different contracts, and it's because we talked about this a lot. And I know you've written a great blog about being a multi passionate person. And so I started out it was like, any job that I got in curriculum, like I took, right and so I was like working like many, many jobs and curriculum. And I would say that that contributed to overwhelm because some jobs I like didn't really like is like assessment, writing is not really my thing, unless we're doing more of like the like, you know, formative like hands on type portfolio vibe assessments that are holistic, and then like also just writing, writing and like trying all of these different, you know, companies and platforms. So like I had been overwhelmed, because it was like, Well, what do I really want to do? Like where do I really want to focus my energy, but then being part of the network and being around other educators, you're able to kind of work through that like what you said, and really doing the backwards planning and being like, Okay, what is it that I want to accomplish? Like what is my end goal? And through that, and take like continuing to take on the contracts? I found that I really loved coaching like instructional coaching and I still get to do coaching. You know, Like in in capacities, like I'm a curriculum coach for our curriculum programs, you know, we support our educators with coaching calls and workshops and things like that. And I love it. And I think the only way to sort of figure that out, at least in my case, was to have sort of those phases of like, okay, here's all the possibilities. I'm overwhelmed, because I'm taking so many things on. But now I'm able to kind of weed through and figure out what works. You know, what works the best for me, and what am I passionate about? Does that make sense? I feel like I kind of was like, Whoa,


Lily Jones  

No, I think that's great. Absolutely. Yeah. Cool. Um, do you want to move on to stage six?


April Brown  

Yes, stage six imposter syndrome. So I feel like this goes really well. Sort of transitioning from what we were just talking about with the overwhelm, and then the imposter syndrome. So this comes up multiple times, I think that we see this with the educators that we support, we talk pretty, frankly, about seeing it within ourselves and all of the different things that we do. We play many different roles that Educator Forever, like with our agency, and with all of the programming that we do for educators. But ultimately, imposter syndrome, can really make us feel like our contributions and our voices do not matter. Like we don't know enough, we don't have enough information, you know, we can't move forward because we need to be more qualified, or we need more experience, or we don't, you know, I don't know this is coming up for me. But it's like, we don't look the part which is just absolute, like BS, but like, that's what's coming out for me as I as I talk about this like, and I think that really this stage, it's really important for us to understand that we need to build our confidence, while simultaneously just dismantling the systems that don't create equitable futures for all of us. But I think that to me, impostor syndrome, the way that we work through it is not individually, like we've worked through it in community, we work through it by being validated and seen by others, and also building the confidence to be like, no, like, my accomplishments matter. I did drive change, and trying to kind of weed out the framing that we might have from being in a system that didn't appreciate us to being like, no, these these skills are valuable. What about you? Is there are there certain times that come to mind for imposter syndrome?


Lily Jones  

Yeah, I mean, I think every time that I tried to do something new, right, like, I think it's like, almost just making sure that it's clear, like normalizing, but like, when you try something new, it's going to be hard, and it's going to be awkward, and you're probably not going to do a good job at it. Like, nothing I did, the first time was great. And if I would have stopped after the first time, like it never would have gotten better. And so I think really just seeing things as a learning opportunity and not internalizing what that means about you. Because it just means that you're trying something new, which is actually like a cause for celebration. And so I think in certain times, like when I took my first Curriculum project out of the classroom, I was like, Oh, this is a lot harder than I thought it would be. And I actually don't know what I'm doing. And so really just reframing that as an opportunity for learning, it doesn't mean that I can just be like, Oh, it was my first time, I don't have to do a good job, but really seeing it as a chance to get better. And that it doesn't mean that I'm not cut out for the job. It just means that I'm like at the beginning stage of learning what it's like to be a curriculum developer. And so really reframing that I found to be helpful and thinking about that, like everybody goes through this, you know, everybody goes through when they try something new that it's hard, like that makes sense. That means you're learning something new. And it actually is cause for celebration. Yes,


April Brown  

I love that I love that you focused on it's going to be hard, and like we're going to make mistakes, but we need to keep going. Yes, absolutely.


Lily Jones  

Absolutely. And I think it's like, you know, like really separating out what we've been told us teachers to like so much of what we see as teachers going back to all the other stages is like that we can't do all these other things so that we can just be teachers. And so I think that when you're in a situation like I was, you know, my first curriculum job, feeling these feelings, like, oh, maybe I can't do this, like a lot of that were not my actual feelings, like it was things that I've been hold about teachers so and so really getting clear on that to have like, I had internalized some of these messages about myself as a teacher. That didn't have to be true. And I did have some sense of agency in that process of being like, I'm gonna learn about curriculum, and I'm gonna dive in and like, yes, it's gonna be hard, but I'm gonna really create my own path forward here. Yeah, and that really leads into stage seven, which is about having a growth mind I'm set to add, it actually goes into a lot of the same things that I was just talking about. But really thinking about what's going to get you through those times of overwhelm. You know, those times I feeling like an imposter, are is adapting a growth mindset, seeing everything as a learning opportunity, even if it's like I applied for all these jobs, and I didn't get them. All right, what can I learn from this, maybe I could take one of these applications, and really dig into it a little bit more, and work on telling my story and work effectively or more persuasively, and really seeing everything as a chance that you can learn as a step on your path, rather than something that stops you. And I think this is hard, because we all have things we want to do. And when they don't work out the way that we want them to like that stinks. And that's really hard to work your way through. But that's when it's really important to be intentional about the mindset that you're having. And to not let it stop you from taking imperfect action and moving forward. How about for you?


April Brown  

Yeah, I mean, I feel like this shows up all the time. And it's interesting, though, because I think the longer that you you work in different positions beyond the classroom, the more comfortable at least for me, taking risks is more comfortable for me, you know, and so I think that it's just like what you said, it's like, the more that you do it, the more calm like, the more able you are to be like, Okay, I'm kind of this is like, messy, this is like not the best. And then you kind of put things down and you're like, Okay, I'm gonna take a step away, come back with my creative process. So I think for me create growth mindset. And understanding myself and my needs better have kind of been, you know, that's kind of an integrated thing. So it's knowing that when I start to go down that negative spiral, what are some ways that I can infuse like self care, like going for a walk, doing a grounding exercise, you know, eating something nourishing, because often, too, I think, when we are stuck in this, like, urgent spiral, and we're just like, ah, you know, that it's, like, easier to spiral into the fixed or the negative to so to stay in a growth mindset? I think, for me, it's like constantly taking risks, constantly allowing myself to grow. But I will say that having that like strong self care practice is really, really important. Do you feel that too?


Lily Jones  

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, as you were talking, it made me really think about resilience. And, like, the whole, like, basis, right, of like, feeling confident, to me, I think is like trusting that you're resilient. And that if things come up, that are hard, just like you're saying, like you have tools that can help you deal with them. And so really building that resiliency, through self care, through mindset, you know, through setting up your life this way, you know, I think really is how we kind of go back to like, the competence and the possibility is, and all these things, because we know, you know, with these tools, we can handle things that come up, but and like to various extents, right? Not like everything's a breeze. But I began having tools and having the confidence that you can get through rocky times, like, is so key. And I think that's what's so beautiful is seeing people develop those tools, as they move beyond the classroom or being like, alright, this didn't go maybe the way that I wanted it to, or right now I'm feeling overwhelmed. But like, what can I do in this moment to to make it a little easier? Or to help me get back more on my path? Yes.


April Brown  

And it actually one last thing about this stage, because I feel like that makes me think of community. Because the more that we're able to experience and watch other folks going through this stage of like, kind of like, okay, grappling with the challenges, but then staying in that hopeful place. It I think it allows us to feel the same, right? Like we're able to experience that too.


Lily Jones  

Yes, totally. So much easier, I think, to see this in somebody else than in yourself sometimes, you know, so it's like, if you see somebody else where it's like, Oh, something didn't go the way they wanted, or they're grappling with something that's challenging in their lives, and you're seeing them work through it, and use these tools like that can be such a great inspiration to be like, oh, like, I want to do that. Make a mental note. And so really making visible I think all these stages, helps everyone because you can be like, yeah, we've all been through times of overwhelm. We've all been through times of having growth mindsets, or, you know, needing a growth mindset. And so really being able to go back to that idea of community and look for the people who can To help you through these different stages, yes. Awesome. So stage eight, we've made it to the end, which is imperfect success. And that imperfect part is key, that we're not going for, like 100%. On a test, like we are going for empowering educators to live lives that feel aligned to what they want to and what they believe about education and what they want to create about education. This can mean that you are a classroom teacher, and you have created a more sustainable life for yourself. And you've advocated for yourself to be able to teach in ways that feel aligned to what you believe. It can mean that you've moved on beyond the classroom entirely. And you've started to work flexibly in education, or you've started your own education business. But really, what we want to cultivate is a sense of agency and a sense of possibility that like, you not only can have a more sustainable and joyful and impactful life, but you actually really need it. Like we all need it. And we all deserve it. And so I think in stage eight, you know, it can look different for lots of different people. But that imperfect part is really that there's no end point. You know, there's always something I think if we're cultivating people who have good growth mindsets and want to learn new things and want to take risks, like there's always going to be that next risk to take or that next thing to explore. And so seeing yourself as a work in progress. And seeing every step along the way, is something that you can learn from how have you experienced stage eight? APR is eight.


April Brown 

Yeah, I mean, I feel like I'm in that right now. You know, it's, it's fantastic to feel like you have a position that feels aligned with your beliefs and values, you know, that being the director of learning and development Educator Forever is just fantastic. And I get to support and advocate for teachers alongside you and our awesome team. And I think that, you know, we're constantly growing like so even within that, right? It's like Educator Forever. Like, we're always wondering, like, how can we support teachers more like what programming do teachers need? Like, what can we add to the network? And so within those, of course, we go through phases, where it's like, Okay, we're gonna try this thing out, maybe this thing doesn't work. And then we're gonna try something else, because it's based on feedback. It's a living and growing. And so I think that it's just constant. Like, I think that the idea, we have to disrupt the idea that success is just going to be like this stagnant thing. And then we're there. It's a journey, and especially for those of us who are educators, and will be educators for forever. It's a light, it's just lifelong, that we're constantly going to be ebbing and flowing and growing and learning and revising and making mistakes. So I mean, I think imperfect success is pretty awesome. Yeah,


Lily Jones  

Absolutely. Me too. And I think just one more thing, along with imperfect success is that like, Your journey is probably going to be messy. You know, like, it's okay to take on things along the way that maybe aren't super aligned to what you want to do. Because maybe you have different needs at that moment. Like you need to make a certain amount of income or you need to stay home with a family member or whatever it might be. So that's part of the imperfect part too.


Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Lily Jones