Episode 105: Founding a Tutoring & College Admissions Consultancy with Matt McGee of MRM Education

For this episode I talk to Matt McGee, founder of MRM Education, a tutoring and college admissions consultancy that promotes academic curiosity, mental health, and confidence in students. With over a decade of experience as an admissions specialist, consultant and tutor, his intensive mentorship method has helped hundreds of students raise their grades and gain admission to Ivy Plus schools.

Matt’s method focuses on managing student expectations, mental health support, and advocating for neurodivergent students. In our talk he shares insights on building a business, the challenges of burnout, and the importance of staying connected to the core mission of supporting students' long-term success.

Free College Admissions Support Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1831324877388161

 

Topics Discussed:

  • How “disabilities” are actually advantages when applying to college

  • Being aware when you’re overwhelmed and not fighting it

  • How not being greedy helps his tutoring business

Resources mentioned:

Related episodes and blog posts:

 
 
 
 

Read the transcript for this episode:

Welcome to Educator Forever, where we empower teachers to innovate education. Join us each week to hear stories of teachers expanding their impacts beyond the classroom and explore ways to reimagine teaching and learning.

Matt McGee is the founder of MRM education, a tutoring and college admissions consultancy that promotes academic curiosity, mental health and competence in students. With over a decade of experience as an admissions specialist consultant and tutor, Matt's intensive mentorship method has helped hundreds of students raise their grades and gain admission to Ivy lus schools. Hey, Matt, so nice to have you here.

Matt McGee

Hi, Lily, thanks for having me.

Lily Jones

Well, I would love to have you take us back in time, however far you want to go, and tell us about your journey as an educator.

Matt McGee

Yeah, for sure. I guess it goes. It goes pretty far back at this point, like 15 years. So I came out of college with an English degree, and didn't necessarily know what I wanted to do with that, so I wound up getting a job as a private tutor, and I was working with kids on ESL, and that essentially took off into getting me involved into college counseling. And then when covid hit, I realized that there was a point of entry for me into the marketplace that didn't have the barriers of needing a brick and mortar space and having all of those things involved. So I started MRM education, which now is the online company that we use to do all of our remote servicing. So that was kind of the cliff notes version of it, but it does go back over a decade at this point.

Lily Jones

Yeah, that's great. I love how you saw that opportunity, too. I think many people did right like, though it was challenging, it also showed us how to bring a service or a product to so many more people being able to work online. And so I'm curious just about you mentioned the college admissions and the tutoring. Can you tell us about how those are, are or are not part of MRM education?

Matt McGee

Yeah, for sure. So they are, they are both very much a part of MRM education. They're, they're, they're very central to what we do. I've always looked at at private tutoring and what I do, and the reason why I never wound up transferring into the classroom is because we do one on one, and that's always what I sort of really enjoyed, was like the one on one connection, building the relationship with a student. And I was never necessarily interested in having to navigate relationships with 30 kids all at once figure out what that was and so, so yeah, naturally, with the college admissions being one on one and the tutoring being one on one, these two things kind of blended into each other. So as we offer it, we work with students one on one in the college admission space for like, a complete, comprehensive support throughout their application process. So that can look like sometimes we get seniors who are basically done with everything, and they want some edits on their essay, and we come in and we say, Hey, these are the changes we would make. And we do that. Other times, we get students who are as young as 12 years old, they're in seventh grade, and they're saying, Hey, I am gunning for these top schools. And we then work with them over the course of five or six years. And we work with them from building their extracurricular list, we help them build their activities list when it comes time to do all the application stuff, we're working on those things, but really we're sort of supporting them and mentoring them through the process of going to high school and making sure that they're making the most of their time by helping them do things like build passion projects and get involved in the work that's important to them. And I think the thing that's really important to us is making sure that we're working with kids in a way that focuses on what they actually enjoy, focuses on what they love. I think there's a lot of pressure to to get into the most competitive field, or to go into STEM because that's where the jobs are and Well, I think there's, you know, some value to that. A lot of what we do is to try and right guide people toward what they're going to enjoy. And it's our philosophy that if you go that path, if you focus on what you care about, you're not only going to be more successful in getting into a better college, but you're going to be better suited once you get there to succeed

Lily Jones

Absolutely. And that's something that I think everybody should hopefully right, like take away, into their jobs, into their lives, like being able to bring their passions. And so rather than seeing it as something that has to be a check mark or, you know, something you have to do, and seeing that there are multiple ways to do it too, as I'm sure you see with college admissions and with tutoring, like a variety of different interests and skills and that, like, there's no one right way.

Matt McGee

Absolutely, and that that even goes back into the tutoring as well. Because I think one of the things that we see in tutoring is like, Hey, you're struggling in math. So let's get you a math expert and and the reality of that is so it like, glosses over so many of the possible issues where you're like, so what is, you know, why are we struggling in math? Is it because we don't understand the subject matter, or is it because the teacher explains it in a way that your brain doesn't process? Is it because you have a neurodivergence? Is it environmental? Did you just keep puberty and there's a cute girl in your class and now you're not paying it? There could be a million reasons. Yeah. And so yeah, we really just kind of try and approach it from the holistic, the holistic approach of, there is a student here, there's a full person here. Let's figure out what they're going to grasp onto, what they're going to cue into, and run with that, and I think that's where we find we're really successful.

Lily Jones

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, I think that the best education approaches all are based on knowing the student right and being able to make adaptations based on the individual person and also help them, as you were saying with the college admissions like advocate for themselves as learners, and know themselves as learners, and so that, like metacognitive moment that we can help coach students through can be so valuable.

Matt McGee

I love that you talked about advocating for themselves, because that is a huge piece of it, both when you're dealing with parents who tend to be very hands on, and you want to teach these kids to like, alright, well, this is how you're going to make your decisions forward going or going forward for yourself and working with, you know, students with disabilities and neurodivergent students, a big piece of that is advocating for yourself when it comes to an IEP or when it comes to your accommodations for testing or anything like that. And it's just a big part. I mean, look, what's the point of education? The point of education is to prepare you for the rest of your life. It's not to get into college, it's not to get a grade, it's to prepare you for the rest of your life. And that goes beyond what academia can provide. So I think if, if we as educators can start to prepare you for that and give you those tools outside of what's going to make you successful in the classroom, that's when we're succeeding.

Lily Jones

That's what really matters. I mean, I think focusing on the bigger why behind everything is always important. So I love that. And I'm curious too, thinking about like the college admissions and the tutoring, how you see those connected, or if you normally work with students on both sides. So how does that work?

Matt McGee

Yeah, for sure. So yeah, I we definitely work with those students on both sides, and I feel like those things have always very naturally kind of gone hand in hand. I mean, to get back into my origin story for lack of a better lack of better term. I was working with a student with he was an AP English student, and he had some essays that he needed to do, and he was like, Hey, will you touch these up for me? I me? So I was working through those. It was touching him up, and it was really good. We had a lot of fun. We enjoyed doing it. And so that led to another student who said, you know, he brought them to me, and it kind of built from there. So the marriage between tutoring, which tends to be, hey, I'm taking this difficult class, and I have this rigorous course load, and I have a really busy schedule, so that's why I need this, like, supplemental stuff. You know, it tends to be students who are going to college. They're the ones that kind of want those services. So, yeah, those two things have always kind of been very closely married. In my experience.

Lily Jones

That makes sense to me, because also it's like, it's getting to know the students through tutoring, maybe, and then through leveraging that relationship to help them as, like an individual, find the best path fast forward, or vice versa, like, Hey, we're creating this path, and then you actually need a little more support over here. Or what's going to be an obstacle that you might face on this path that we've laid out for you. So I think it's interesting thinking about how they both fit together Absolutely.

Matt McGee

And you get kids, you know, you get students all the time who are like, I'm in AP Calc, and I'm in AP history, and I'm in AP Physics, and I'm an AP Bio, right? And so they're taking all of these, and it's like, okay, you know, you're very high achieving person. I get that, but how are you going to manage all of these very difficult classes? Are you going to need support in any of them? Oftentimes they do. Oftentimes, that's the support that they're looking for. So yeah, it really does become like a stress management thing, a workload management thing, a bandwidth management thing, because I think I'm not sure how involved in the college admission space you are, but now, more than ever, these kids are getting insane amounts of I'll use the term work, but it's really much more than of expectations put upon them. Where even I as adult go, I couldn't handle that expectations now, let alone when I was 17 or 16, or, you know, however old these kids are, as they're going through it.

Lily Jones

Yeah, it's so intense. And I'm curious. I mean, you've alluded to this, but like, how you support students with the mental health component of all the pressure and navigating wanting to go to a certain school or have a certain experience with also all the pressure and expectations?

Matt McGee

Yeah, so, I mean, it happens. It happens in layers, because I'll tell you the the amount of times I'll go on to a consult call and I'm meeting with the family, and the first question is, so where are we at this with this? You know, what do we need the most help with, and the amount of times that that elicits tears? This is alarmingly high, like I you know, you can see the stress and frustration, not just with the process, but the relationship that the you know, the family has with itself. And now you know how this is affecting their relationships. And so it winds up being this multi tiered thing where so our counselors and our tutors are all trained in California, which is where we are, they have a program for Youth Mental Health First Aid. So essentially, our tutors and counselors are all certified to be able to recognize signs of depression, signs of anxiety, burnout, anything like that, and they have the basic tools to deal with it. If it's more of a minor issue, right? Maybe it's a student that's just got a heck of a week coming up, and they've got to deal with that. They can kind of handle that situation. But in other situations, they're they're capable of, kind of like referring that to the school psych or to if the family has a private health insurance thing. They can do that from the other side of it, we're very big on kind-of managing and setting expectations from the outset. So you get a lot of a lot of students and a lot of families who are like, if I don't get into Yale, I will die.

Lily Jones

Pressures on,

Matt McGee

Well, you know, there's a 60% chance here, even with your great grades, that you are going to die and and we really kind of try and diffuse that from the outset, which is, look, the right school will find you. You know, you will settle into the right classes and you will succeed in the right classes on the tutoring side. So it's it's more about managing expectations and letting them know, hey, look, you don't need to move heaven and earth to make this, you know, to make this process go for you and and you need to understand that there is much more to attending college than the prestige behind going to an Ivy or going to Stanford. And so that's really where we try and kind of alleviate that pressure. It's not an easy thing to do. It doesn't happen in one session. It winds up being as like, it's not educational therapy, but it is therapy that happens in an educational environment, and you sort of over time, disabuse them of this idea. And what we really do, going back to the passion, is, you know, we'll have a lot of students, they'll come in and say, I really want to go to Harvard, and I want to go to Harvard business school after I graduate from Harvard, and I'm going, okay, and in my head, I'm asking, Why, right? Like, do you want to go there? Because you really, you know what the MBA is all about, and you've seen the process of where that goes, and that's what really excites you. Or do you want to go there? Because, you know, you watched Legally Blonde, and you heard that Harvard is the best school, and that's where you want to go now. So, you know, in a situation like that, where we really come in is talking to a student and learning what actually moves a student, what do you care about? What do you really love? Because when you start to figure out those things, you're going to realize that there's actually a different school, or there's a different program that's much better for you. And by the way, there's not just this other program. There's this program in a state that actually supports, you know, an initiative that you really love, or exists on a campus that you think is going, you know, is really beautiful for what you want to do. Maybe you love nature and it's a very rural campus, or you always wanted to be in a big city, and so, you know, Boston University appeals to you more than Harvard, because Harvard's tucked away. And BU is, is, you know, on Commonwealth app. And that's really where we're able to kind of break them free of this idea that that there is one school for them and they have to get into it, and we try and show them there are much more opportunities that are much better for you in that way.

Lily Jones

That's so powerful. Because I also think it's so important for life too, right? Like there are infinite possibilities and so many different things that people can do. And I think that often as humans, we get hung up on one particular thing. And so helping and coaching students, you know, young people, teens through that process is something that I can imagine that they will use throughout their life, right? Like, it's not just about getting to Harvard, it's about having the agency and flexibility to make choices that get you where you want to go.

Matt McGee

Yeah, yeah, being adaptable, and in this conversation, these are the kind of things that the schools love to hear about, right? That I do have this kind of growth mindset, that I am adaptable, that I do know that there's not just one path they love, free thinkers and creative people and whatnot. And so yeah, it goes back to what we were saying before about giving them the tools to succeed beyond academically,

Lily Jones

yeah, and then thinking about with the personalization. And of course, as we've talked about, the diverse range of students that you work with, how do you support neuro divergent students or neuro diverse students?

Matt McGee

Sure, so I mean, on the tutoring side, we have people that actually deal with that. We have people who are certified specialists, they are familiar working with. You know, if. An example they'd be they have experience working with an autistic student, or they have experience working with students with ADHD or other potentially, you know, processing disorders on the admission side of things, you would be surprised how many times people come to me, you know, and they have ADHD, or maybe they have a physical disability, and they go, like, do you think that I could get into college? And I'm and I'm sitting here, from my perspective, knowing what I know, going, of course you can get into college. Like, that's a no duh. And I have to kind of check myself with that, and go, okay. But these other people, you know, they don't necessarily know what we know. And the one thing that I've come to kind of realize about it is when you're told, No, you know, you can't be included, or no, this probably isn't for you because you're you know, you're different, or you have a disability, or you're neurodivergent, eventually, I think you start to internalize that, that that No, and you stop asking the question. And so these people come to me and go, like, you know, I don't think it's possible, but, like, I thought I would ask. But so one of the big things on the college admission side that we do is trying to disabuse that very quickly and speak to your disability is actually an advantage. What you have actually creates a unique a unique thing about you. You see the world differently, you think about things differently. Your experiences have been different. And one of the things that colleges love is diversity of experience, diversity of perspective. I was speaking with a student just last night. I did, I did a presentation down for a school district in Orange County, and a young girl comes up to me and she says, I have ADHD, should I write about that in one of my supplementals? Or will they kind of, like, look down on that? And I'm going no that, you know, this is something that makes you you. They want to get an idea for who you are. So I think on the college admission side, supporting neuro divergent students is really just knowing, knowing and encouraging these students to kind of be themselves and to not hide that bit of themselves, because colleges really do appreciate that unique, that individuality that that brings,

Lily Jones

And having that Asset Based and being able to flip that for students too, is so powerful. Of seeing like, Hey, this is actually a superpower in some ways, or this is something that you can bring to the table that not everybody has. So building that self awareness and taking that from feeling not great about it, you know, just seeing it in a different light, sure.

Matt McGee

Because if you were going back to the toolbox outside of the classroom, one of the things that we as educators have to do is build confidence in these kids, right? If we're not building their confidence, and a lot of them don't have that confidence, we're really not setting them up to succeed.

Lily Jones

Mm, hmm, absolutely, absolutely. So I love hearing about your business, and I'm curious to hear a little bit more about just your experience building this organization, going from working individually as a tutor to now having MRM education. Can you tell us a little bit about what you've learned through the process?

Matt McGee

What haven't I learned? I feel like..

Lily Jones

I feel that.

Matt McGee

Yeah, I feel like, I've, I've, you need, like, an entire degree of business just to figure this stuff out. It's such a wide breadth that I almost struggle to answer the question, the amount of work and learning that goes into it, the amount that you need to prepare for, you know, things that are not just related to what your business does. But in terms of, you know, learning marketing and pitching yourself and figuring out when to pay your taxes and how to incorporate your business and what the best business structure is. It is. It is its own It is its own world. And yeah, I feel like every single day I, you know, I keep learning about the things that I have to that I have to figure out for tomorrow. And I've been in business for four years, you know. And so, yeah, you just for any, any educator that is thinking of going and starting this, you really need to, you really need to think about, you know, do you have, do you have the metal and the bandwidth? Because we as educators, we know all about burnout, right? That's not something that's new to us. And I think a lot of educators get into doing this because they go, I'm burned out in the classroom, so I'm going to start my own business, and that's going you're going to burn yourself, you're going to you're going to experience burnout like you have not experienced it before, with just everything that comes, and to just be prepared for that. I think that's the big thing that I've learned.

Lily Jones

And I think it could be a different kind of burnout, though. You know, like, I think it's a certain flavor. When you have more autonomy, going back to even what you were saying with students, right? Like, when it's your thing that you're building, then I think it's a you definitely have to be aware, you know, and like, not recreate the same old crazy patterns of being a teacher and all the things. But I think that because you have the ability to, kind of change course, it can make it more manageable. But I absolutely agree, of, like, having some, I don't know, like, this approach to being able to just, like, I have figured out, or, like you said, right? Like, I don't even know how many years I've been in business now, but I feel the same way, right? Like, definitely seven, maybe. And it's like, yeah, there's always something, whether it's like, some new payroll thing or some, like, tech stuff or whatever. And so being able to have that growth mindset and be able to learn through the process and not get overwhelmed, I think, is amazing, and also can be kind of hard, like as a teacher, where you're so just like, I'm in charge of my own classroom, but like, there's this text department, or, like, this is the HR department, or whatever it is. Like you're very siloed.

Matt McGee

Absolutely. And another big piece, you know, is touching on being overwhelmed, is learning to be overwhelmed and saying, that's okay, I am overwhelmed right now, and that's fine. I'm not going to freak out about that. I'm just going to, kind of like, sit here and exist in that. I I went to the National Association for college admissions counselors conference last year, or no, sorry, last week, which is this massive conference. There's like 7000 people there. You wind up meeting so many people, so many great relationships and whatnot. And I've had, I think maybe 50 to 100 business cards sitting on my table for the past week, and I'm going, I don't know how or when I'm going to be able to approach this, but I'm just kind of letting that be what it is. And I'm sitting in that uncomfortability. I think, I think the other big thing about it is, like, staying connected to your why, right? Like, why am I doing this? I know for us, for me, it's like there was a there was a trend in tutoring when I was working as a tutor, and I know it still exists, where tutoring companies will charge like 200 bucks an hour, and then they'll pay the tutor like $25 an hour. And I'm going, that's, that's, that's crazy from a business perspective. I'm sitting here thinking I could charge that. I could pay the tutor $100 an hour and still make a killing, still do great from a business perspective, and actually probably do better, because my tutors will care more about this. They I will attract better people. They will be, you know, they'll keep their schedules open to reschedule sessions and whatnot. And so that's a big piece for me, is wanting to be able to, like increase this teacher pay at least on the private side, until I can figure out how to touch that on the public side, which is a whole other piece. But in my moments of overwhelm, or my moments of I don't think this is working, or in my moments of fear and doubt and anxiety, if I can connect with that. Why, if you as a teacher, can connect with that. Why? I feel like that's what makes you sort of unstoppable, if that makes sense,

Lily Jones

Absolutely. I mean, it gives you the perseverance to be able to move through those hard times which are real and are gonna happen regardless. You know, we can't avoid them, but having that why to kind of help steer the ship? Absolutely. I mean, I think that's really again, you know, so many of the things that we were talking about with students, like growth mindset, having your why, like persevering, finding your own personalized path that works for you. Like it's all the same for us too, as grown ups, and particularly when you take a risk and start your own business, and kind of have to go through these treacherous waters sometimes, you know, connecting back to those same things we do with students? Sure, sure, absolutely awesome. Well, it was so nice talking with you, Matt, thanks so much for sharing about your journey and your company. Can you tell folks where they can connect with you?

Matt McGee

Yeah,of course. You can find us online at www.mrmeducation.com and you can find us on Instagram at @mrmeducation.com or you can find my personal page, which is at Matt McGee underscore college admissions.

Lily Jones

Wonderful. Thanks so much.

Matt McGee

Thank you. Lily.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai



Lily Jones